Client insisting on cheap materials - what to do?

[YorkshireMartin]

So I have a little commission, my first. I've been in business before so I'm used to dealing with difficult clients, but obviously when it comes to wood products I'm pretty new.

I have to make a sizeable display stand to a design provided by the client. 18mm ply is the material of choice as the exposed laminations form part of the design.

The problem I have is, that the client wants to source the plywood from B&Q, because they already have an account. I'd seen B&Q plywood before and it's awful, delaminating on the racks with chunks missing. I think it's going to be worse than C grade and the stuff they want to use is also softwood throughout. Nevertheless, I made samples from the sheet they supplied (which delaminated in places just from being sawn).

They want this display to be reusable.

They don't seem to understand/care that it may well be fit for nothing but firewood if they transport it, use it for display and take it down again. I can't seem to get the point across that they should spend the extra and get BB/BB grade birch throughout for longevity.

My main worry is that they will come back to me in say, 3 months time and say it's looking a mess despite ignoring my advice.

Can anyone offer any advice? Would you proceed on this basis, where the client is clearly ignoring your advice?

 

[Rorschach]

Write out a contract stating your terms and your thoughts and that you won't be responsible for failure due to materials, only workmanship, get them to sign it. Then crack on and make it.

 

[MattRoberts]

Might be better to position it that the client has specifically stated what material to use from what store, despite you recommending otherwise...

 

[doctor Bob]

Do you really want to do it? Is it profitable? It's your first commission and already you seem to have serious doubts.
If it's going to look poor whatever you do, it will reflect on you.

My advice would be don't rush into taking a commission just because it's on offer.

 

[YorkshireMartin]

Thats what I thought you'd say gents. I just hate tying people up with contracts and T&C's but seems like theres little choice in this situation.

Bob, yes it's not a bad little project really and profitable. It's an an arrangement of cubes, mostly 4 faces, some 5 or 6, with dividers and so on. My name won't be on it or anything so I'm not too worried about it affecting my as yet non-existent reputation and referrals are unlikely unless someone actually liked it enough to ask. This isn't the type of thing I'd normally be looking to do, but it's for a friend of a friend, although if I've learned anything in business, it's those you might trust that can give the biggest problems!

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

Just say no, explain to them it needs to be made of baltic birch (or whatever you choose) and that's that.
In my work at a dry dock I am often faced with customers wanting me to do things that are "wrong". There was a time when I was swayed by the "customer is always right" nonsense. I have learnt that I need to tell customers how things can be done and with which materials, if they do't like it they can go elsewhere. I figure that my work is hard and I don't earn much compared to most office types, the consolation is that I know I am doing something tangible and real and if a customer, who knows little to nothing about how to do the things I do does not respect my advice I'd rather not work for them. I often find that the customers who think they know about stuff and have that "oh, I'd do it myself if I had the tools and the time" (imagining that there are no skills and knowledge that they are missing) are the same ones who try to screw you on price.
Now I have been in business for a fair time and this is easy for me as I am inundated with work, i realise that this is your first job and it is probably tempting to just do as they ask to get the job, but ask yourself why you want to do this work and if it is really worth doing something you are not comfortable with.
Paddy

 

[marcros]

i would walk away if necessary. I would also insist in general that you supply the materials, unless it is a special piece of timber for some reason. if it falls apart, they are only going to remember that you made it, not that they supplied the material.

 

[RogerM]

Do you really want to do it? Is it profitable? It's your first commission and already you seem to have serious doubts.
If it's going to look poor whatever you do, it will reflect on you.

My advice would be don't rush into taking a commission just because it's on offer.

+1. One of the most difficult things to learn in business is when to walk away. Maybe explain that you only work with quality materials, and that you choose these yourself to meet the clients brief as to what he wants as an end result to ensure that it meets your exacting standards. Remember the "pub effect". i.e. if the job goes well he'll maybe thank you and tell his mate. If it goes badly, he'll go down the pub and tell everyone.

Using quality ply will add next to nothing to the cost, and having used B&Q ply once before, I'd never use it again for all the reasons already identified.

 

[adidat]

A slightly different take but I have made loads of furniture for a busy tea shop from wisa spruce ply, this is very tough stuff and only delaminates if a very thin slice is cut. I seem to remember paying about £36 + vat from travis Perkins and they are always expensive!

Adidat

 

[MattRoberts]

But he's spot on about the b&q ply - it's horrific stuff, with so many voids it would be a miracle to make a cut and not have at least one showing

 

[YorkshireMartin]

But he's spot on about the b&q ply - it's horrific stuff, with so many voids it would be a miracle to make a cut and not have at least one showing

This has been happening and they are saying they like the "rustic" look.

How can something be rustic and made of ply. That one drove me nuts.

 

[morturn]

Money moves towards risk. So you may see this as a potential profitable venture, however you have to assess the possibility of a failure in the materials and the likelihood of a claim for compensation.

Jobs for a friends of a friend sound so nice in the surface, but when they go wrong, friendships suddenly go out of the window. So if you go ahead with this, make sure you have sufficient margin in your pricing build-up to cover the costs of a claim.

 

[YorkshireMartin]

Money moves towards risk. So you may see this as a potential profitable venture, however you have to assess the possibility of a failure in the materials and the likelihood of a claim for compensation.

Jobs for a friends of a friend sound so nice in the surface, but when they go wrong, friendships suddenly go out of the window. So if you go ahead with this, make sure you have sufficient margin in your pricing build-up to cover the costs of a claim.

wise words.

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

+1 Over time in business I have built up good relations with suppliers, for example I will always add 20% onto materials but will still supply steel (I do a lot of welding work as well as wood work) considerably cheaper than my customers could get it. These little extras add up over time and help make a business viable.
Paddy

 

[Dan j]

Are you able to get a price for ply from elsewhere to show them?
I've come across similar issues with people and often when you can show them that the difference in material price is pretty insignificant compared to the labour costs they will have to pay anyway they will come around.

Having everything in writing is probably a wise move.

I'm afraid I've come unstuck doing jobs for friends of friends and the like and eventually had to draw a line under it and say never again. I'll only work for people who i have a solely business relationship with.

 

[Lons]

I learned very quickly to accept work only on the condition I supplied all materials. I was always fair and passed on part of the discount I received.
Very few on my projects had problems but the only ones that did were where I allowed my customers to supply.

As others have said, It's difficult to walk away but sometimes it makes sense.

 

[beganasatree]

Hi Martin,
I have had similar situations in the past and if I could not get them to see reason I would ask them to sign a disclaimer .That often changed their mind ,if not then I walked away.It takes time to build a good reputation and only one bad mouth to ruin it.

Peter.

 

[giantbeat]

do it your way or not at all mate, these situations can turn bad quickly & you will cursing yourself for agreeing their terms instead of setting yours.

 

[beganasatree]

Do they want to buy on a Wednesday???????????????

 

[Phil Pascoe]

+1 for Dr. Bob. One thing no one seems to have thought of - what happens if you do persuade them to use birch ply and then they come back and say it's too heavy to cart around?