Chuck Recess

[TheTiddles]

Just wondering what the collective wisdom is here given this month's challenge...

A dovetail chuck recess in the underside of a bowl, is it:
1) Fine, who cares it's on the bottom where it can't be seen?
2) Ok, so long as it's neat and polished to the same standard as the rest of the piece
3) Only for exceptional circumstances, like when a irregular piece can't be reversed to finish off
4) Hate them, never, never , never!

Similarly, faceplate screw holes for that matter

ta

Aidan

 

[miles_hot]

I alternate between removing and leaving on. Overall at the moment I'm tending to remove but I don't think that they're an issue really. They do have to be finished to the same standard as the rest of the bowl and I much prefer when they form part of the design - i.e. there isn't an acre of wood between the edge of the foot and the recess. It is also nice when someone has finished the inside of the recess in some way - i.e. not just a flat surface.

Screw holes on the other hand I hate - now that's not rational really but they just seem amateur some how

Miles

 

[Wood spoiler]

My tuppence worth ....

I started off using dovetails. I had advice to use a spigot from my local pro, as a compressed grip is more secure, which I initially ignored. After having a couple of break outs where the expansion of jaws split some of the remaining wood away, I now look to spigot not dovetail. I find a trimmed foot or to reverse chuck and completely remove an easy process and less likely to interfere with a bowl design

Colin

 

[miles_hot]

I would tend to agree with WS that I have started to switch over to tenons as I'm getting rather bored with bowls coming off as the socket splits

Miles

 

[Blister]

Just wondering what the collective wisdom is here given this month's challenge...

A dovetail chuck recess in the underside of a bowl, is it:
1) Fine, who cares it's on the bottom where it can't be seen?
2) Ok, so long as it's neat and polished to the same standard as the rest of the piece
3) Only for exceptional circumstances, like when a irregular piece can't be reversed to finish off
4) Hate them, never, never , never!

Similarly, faceplate screw holes for that matter

ta

Aidan

Aidan

Any of the above

Its your design , personally I don't follow the " It must be done this way " side of things

You design , you turn , you finish , you decide , variety is the spice of life


I personally am not in favor of " Similarly, faceplate screw holes for that matter "

But they are better than no turning at all

Have fun in the challenge / competition :mrgreen:

 

[Jonzjob]

I always use a dovetail and have had very little in the way of problems with them. They are always finished and polished with whatever the rest of the bowl is going to be done in and I quite often put 3 rings in there with the tip of a scew. I also usually pyro the type of wood in there too.

 

[skeetoids]

Hi,

At the moment I always use a recess, I have no problem with this technique and always finish the recess to the same standard as the rest of the piece.

I tend to use a spigot on a platter to give it a little lift.

Some people in the past have commented on how a recess leaves evidence of the piece being held on the lathe, and a spigot is preferred so this can be removed later with less evidence of lathe holding. I actually quite like the recess on my work as I feel it adds another dimension to the bottom.

In terms on what is right or wrong, I'm with Blister on that one. You do what you like and the rest is up to everyone else. However, screw holes are unsightly and I feel they detract from any piece you may make, plus I think that they are a sloppy method of finishing a piece and should be filled or turned out where possible. Although Blisters point of turning anything/something (even with holes) is better than not turning at all.

Experience will tell you what's right and wrong for you.

Cheers,

Lee.

 

[Bodrighy]

The only criteria that matters IMHO is whether it is safe or not. A recess can be adorned and made to look as part of the underside decoration. Tenons can be removed, screw holes are not good as far as I am concerned and a sign of lazy tuning. It does also depend on the wood, open grain woods like ash are best with tenons as the wood can split in a recess but also can be crushed with a tenon so you takes your choice. If you want a round bottom bowl or form then a tenon is the obvious choice, or a glue chuck which is a whole different ball game. Really is up to the individual . No right or wrong as long as the finished article is cleaned and finished properly.

Pete

 

[SVB]

For me, where possible, I remove the method of holding. I acknowledge some manage to incorperate them into the overall design of the base but I have seen too many craft stalls with ranges of sizes of bowls / platters all with 65mm 'design' features in the base regardless of the size or function of the piece!

Would you expect or be happy if a cabinet maker carved a couple of extra groves in the legs of a table to disguise where the vice gripped the leg during making?

Just my thoughts for my work but as my nan always said, the world would be a boring place if we were all the same!

Simon

 

[The Shark]

Can't agree more with the philosophy that there is no right or wrong way, do what you think looks the best!

From a personal viewpoint, I originally didn't have a chuck, so utilised the screw and faceplate method.
I covered the screwholes with green beize on the bottom of the pieces.
I was well chuffed at the time, but looking at them now, they seem really naff!

Also, I was advised by an experienced turner to go for spigots rather than recess as it is a better grip by the jaws.

HTH

Malc

 

[johnny.t.]

I agree with SVB about the holding marks but it really is up to the individual how they want to finish bases and what they find acceptable.
For me a spigot/tenon on the base is the only way to go, its a much stronger hold as has already been mentioned and allows you to decide how the base ends up rather than the recess dictating it to you. It takes only a couple of minutes to remove it and sand/finish the base the same as the rest of the bowl.IMHO for an extra couple of minutes work it looks a lot better.

JT

 

[robo hippy]

I prefer a recess, and don't turn it off later. I didn't like the face plate screw holes in the bottoms of the bowls. You had to leave the bottom too thick, and the bowl does not 'feel' right. I don't turn off the recess as it is an extra production step, and when selling, it would add cost. The buyers don't care. I do sand it out.

As to the recess grip failing, there are a couple of related reasons. If you don't have enough shoulder on the outside of the recess, there isn't much wood to support the pressure of the jaws. This means that if you have a 12 inch bowl, your chuck jaws are 2 inches when closed, and you have a 1/4 inch shoulder, your grip is pretty weak. It would be possible to turn one like this and get away with it, but it would not support heavy roughing cuts and coring stresses. The other related thing here is over tightening. You want it snug, but not over tight. You can blow the shoulder out just by overtightening before you even start to turn. You can tighten to the extent that the joint is under stress, then the added stress of turning or a catch will cause the grip to fail. A 1 inch shoulder on a 12 inch bowl is plenty. I generally leave the foot of the bowl about 1/4 the diameter of the bowl, so a 12 inch bowl would have a foot about 3 inches across. My small chuck has jaws about 1 5/8 inch diameter, which would leave a shoulder of 5/8 inch plus. If you have a keyed chuck, then snug it up in one key hole, rotate, and snug it up in the other key hole. I some times will go around a couple of times with a larger piece.

robo hippy

 

[Richard Findley]

I'm a spigot man myself. I think the important thing though is design and the biggest problem with a recess is that it is very restrictive with your design. A spigot is easily removed or changed to suit the design.Remember you are the boss, not the bowl, the chuck or the lathe, YOU!!

Something to bear in mind, as this question relates to the competition, a bowl with a recess left in compared to a bowl with a neatly finished bottom..... I know who would win if I were the jugde....

Are the judges alowed to ask for more photos by the way? As in, there is no hiding a badly finished bottom just because you didn't take a photo?? :wink:

Cheers

Richard

P.s I have photos (and have posted before) of my very cheap and simple bowl reversal technique. I'd be happy to post again if anyone missed it!!

 

[Blister]

I'm a spigot man myself. I think the important thing though is design and the biggest problem with a recess is that it is very restrictive with your design. A spigot is easily removed or changed to suit the design.Remember you are the boss, not the bowl, the chuck or the lathe, YOU!!

Something to bear in mind, as this question relates to the competition, a bowl with a recess left in compared to a bowl with a neatly finished bottom..... I know who would win if I were the jugde....

Are the judges alowed to ask for more photos by the way? As in, there is no hiding a badly finished bottom just because you didn't take a photo?? :wink:

Cheers

Richard

P.s I have photos (and have posted before) of my very cheap and simple bowl reversal technique. I'd be happy to post again if anyone missed it!!

Richard


The Rules ,

Hi entrants,

The January Challenge is for a standard bowl

One item per entrant

Standard bowl. No texturing / piercing / coloring / carving / burning

Any wood type, any size

Emphasis on design, tool control and finish.

Completed entry's to be uploaded the last week of January 25th - 31st

NO Critique on any work until February Please, After the Judging and results.

Please state item size, width and height and wood type if known and a little about how you made it and what finish you used

Please post 3 images of your work

1 from above
1 side profile
1 of the bottom / underneath

Image size, most digital cameras have a menu / image quality setting, please use image size 640 x 480 0.3 mp

Regarding posting images, if you have a problem please ask for assistance.

Any questions please ask

The Judge for January will be Barry (cookie777 )

The Judges decision is final


So let the fun begin

And keep safe, eye protection and a dust mask

PS

Can you PM me when you have your project ready so I can mark you off the list below :mrgreen:

So the bottom is already covered :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[skeetoids]

Hi,

Can someone explain to me why a chuck tightened onto a spigot is stronger than tightened into a recess? I understand that the strength of a spigot is greater than the wall of a recess but my thinking is to do with the make up of the chuck.

My only thoughts are that a recess grip is stronger, the chuck jaws while spinning freely with no attachment would logically move outwards if they where to fail or become loose. If this happens on a spigot then there is nothing outside the jaws to prevent this from happening. However, if the jaws came loose in a recess then surely they would be forced outwards and stay locked into the recess?

Maybe I'm not thinking logically enough about this but wondered if anyone could explain as it's part of the main reason I use a recess.

Cheers,

Lee.

 

[Blister]

Hi,

Can someone explain to me why a chuck tightened onto a spigot is stronger than tightened into a recess? I understand that the strength of a spigot is greater than the wall of a recess but my thinking is to do with the make up of the chuck.

My only thoughts are that a recess grip is stronger, the chuck jaws while spinning freely with no attachment would logically move outwards if they where to fail or become loose. If this happens on a spigot then there is nothing outside the jaws to prevent this from happening. However, if the jaws came loose in a recess then surely they would be forced outwards and stay locked into the recess?

Maybe I'm not thinking logically enough about this but wondered if anyone could explain as it's part of the main reason I use a recess.

Cheers,

Lee.

Lee

My thoughts are as follows

If you expand into a recess it will hold , if you tighten to much it may split / crack the work piece

If you clamp down onto a tenon less chance of doing any damage , However if you are using wet / damp wood it can become loos as it will compress

Also regardless of compression or expansion you must be careful of the following point

When chuck jaws are made they are made in one part , then saw into 4 quarters

so when the spigot or tenon is turned it must be to include the 1/4 inch that is cut away when quartering the jaws ,

so best to open the jaws on the chuck 1/4" when measuring for the tenon / spigot to grip on to or expand into for the maximum contact area of the jaws


If you see what I mean :?

 

[bobham]

Hi,


My only thoughts are that a recess grip is stronger, the chuck jaws while spinning freely with no attachment would logically move outwards if they where to fail or become loose.

That depends on the brand of the chuck. My Oneway chucks tighten in the opposite direction from my Nova chuck. I believe I saw a video somewhere that showed that a Nova chuck closes if allowed to free spin, which is the opposite of your statement above.

Bob

 

[skeetoids]

Thanks Blister and Bobham, this makes good sense now.

Cheers,

Lee.

 

[gnu]

Do you worry about the underside of your tv set, sofa, car or fridge when you buy it? Probably not. So why should you worry about the undersides of you bowls as long as it is neat and tidy. Whether it has screw holes or a recess is not liklely to put the customers off. In fact if you leave the recess on the customer can bring it back that beautiful cherry fruit bowl a few years to be polished up or if it has got damaged it can be remounted and skimmed.

 

[gus3049]

Do you worry about the underside of your tv set, sofa, car or fridge when you buy it? Probably not. So why should you worry about the undersides of you bowls as long as it is neat and tidy. Whether it has screw holes or a recess is not liklely to put the customers off. In fact if you leave the recess on the customer can bring it back that beautiful cherry fruit bowl a few years to be polished up or if it has got damaged it can be remounted and skimmed.

Hi,

You're not French are you??

This is a very French attitude! The Brits carefully finish off the bits of furniture that don't show whilst the French..... you should see that state of the back and insides of some of the furniture I get to fix.

I'm in two minds (there's a meeting about schizophrenia at the town hall tonight, I've half a mind to go) about this. The bits I've put an immaculate finish on the bottom of (pardon my split infinitives), just feel so much better when handled. I think it is this that would decide the issue for me. If I've done my job right, people would want to pick up the bowl, pot whatever and run their fingers over it. Well finished wood is such a tactile substance that I find myself picking up things that I've done just for the pleasure of it.