Chisel sharpening - do we have a beginner guide?

[Awac]

Thank you. Will look into the coarse stone.

How often do you find you need to refresh your India surface with the diamond?

Not a great deal, and literally 3-4 rubs back and forth (why am I thinking of Vic and Bob...) keeps the surface fresh, no science to it, just when it feels right, stone cutting slows down. If you are only occasionally sharpening you might not need to flatten an oil stone for a long time. If you are doing carving gouges, they can wear a grove after a period of time (much better than water stones for wear).
Once you have everything sharpened and bezels to your liking, it does not take much effort to keep them. It is the shaping of the bezel angle that takes the effort on a stone (I shape with a hand cranked wheel or a Pro-edge now, but I used to do it by hand) and you can use that coarse diamond for this, but being cheap it has its limits for punishment.
Remember, what you are aiming for is to remove as little as possible.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Thank you. Will look into the coarse stone.

How often do you find you need to refresh your India surface with the diamond?

The surface of an India fine stone needs refreshing about once a decade if you're using it occasionally, and take care to sharpen over the whole surface of the stone and wipe it clean of contaminated oil at the end of each day. If you're using it professionally every day, maybe once a year.

I have one I've used intermittently for about 35 years. The surface has never needed 'refreshing' to make it cut better, but because I haven't used the ends of the stone as much as the middle, it's worn about 1/2mm hollow in length. In that time, it's sharpened thousands of chisel and plane edges, and a good few other things, too.

Tip - before you have a 'proper' wooden box for it to live in, keep the stone in a thick plastic bag when not in use. Two reasons - it keeps dust and filth from contaminating the stone's working surfaces, and it stops the oil that leaks out of the stone from contaminating everything it comes into contact with. If the wood of the box is porous, it'll absorb oil from the stone over a few months, and start leaking it onto anything it's stood on. Either poly bag or wrap in rag, or soak the box in oilproof finish before it goes into service, and wipe it out at the end of each day. Only takes a few seconds.

The oil leaking isn't a problem with most natural oilstones, which aren't porous, just the man-made ones, which are. The naturals (Arkansas, slate and the like), you just wipe clean and job's a good 'un.

 

[billw]

Hone alone.

Terrible film.

 

[Jacob]

....If you're using it professionally every day, maybe once a year.

A bit more than that. It's not just the swarf it's the wire edges, other dust and sawdust too. Every day or 'now and then' - just a quick pass when its well flooded with oil. It makes a huge difference

....

The oil leaking isn't a problem with most natural oilstones, which aren't porous, just the man-made ones, which are. The naturals (Arkansas, slate and the like), you just wipe clean and job's a good 'un.

Not the leakage more the spillage - they work best when well flooded and oily rags need to be on hand. Not a problem.

 

[Rorton]

Im planning on using some iroko I have to make a box and router out a section the exact size of the stone (half in each half) so it doesn’t move inside the box. Hopping that should be ok?

 

[Rorton]

Just looking at idea of what others make for a box to store the stone, and noticed that people that use a honing guide, suggest putting some 1” blocks of wood at either end of the stone, flush with the top of the stone, this way the guides wheel can start to run on the block of wood and not the stone and then you can use the whole length of the stone.
seem like a good idea or just overkill?

 

[Orraloon]

Looks like a good Idea to me.
Regards
John

 

[Nigel Burden]

Bill Carter advocates a block at both ends of the box, so as the blade doesn't drop off I suppose.

Miscellaneous (billcarterwoodworkingplanemaker.co.uk)

Nigel.

 

[Jacob]

Never felt the need for a block at each end but I can see the need if you use a jig.
Re freshening up the surface - I was thinking about CC's comments ^^^ contrasting with mine, he says hardly ever, I say every now and then.
The coarser the stone the more often it needs freshening - and vice versa; very fine stones hardly ever. In fact it's temping to freshen up a slow fine stone only to find that it made no difference at all - it wasn't needed. But a coarse stone feels different immediately. It removes a bigger quantity of coarser material and gunges up faster. Also the way I do it is quite fast and forceful with a lot of pressure, which is not possible with a honing jig.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Gosh - another year passes and we have:
1) Yet another sharpening thread.
2) Jacob on a sharpening thread.

Ground hog day?!

Happy New Year!

 

[Jacob]

Gosh - another year passes and we have:
1) Yet another sharpening thread.
2) Jacob on a sharpening thread.

Ground hog day?!

Happy New Year!

Nice to be back!
It is a fundamental issue and is heavily worked over in many places, nothing to do with me! I don't start threads but I don't see why I shouldn't chip in if anybody asks for info. They chose for themselves.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

I think the usual material for oilstone boxes was whatever happened to be available. Cabinetmakers might find a nice piece of mahogany, shopfitters would have access to offcuts all sorts of choice timbers; teak would nice, being oily, but very hard to find these days.. Iroko should be as good as anything.

The end-grain inserts at the stone ends are something seen in quite a few vintage oilstone boxes. I think the logic is that a bit of a run-off at the ends of the stone allowed even a freehand sharpener a full stroke, allowing more even wear at the stone ends. It's not compulsory - more boxes don't have them than do - but it does show that bit extra care taken by someone taking pride in their kit.

A few years back, one of our occasional contributors, Graham Haydon (come back Graham - all is forgiven!), made a You-Tube video showing a simple oilstone set-up. He had two blocks of wood the same thickness as the stone screwed to a scrap of melamine-faced chipboard. One of the blocks was long enough to allow the honing guide a full run back off the stone; the other block just stopped the stone from sliding forward. Thus, he had long runway, stone, stop block. He could lift the stone out to wipe off surplus oil, which obviously the melamine helped with. Also screwed to the melamine was a block set the right distance from the edge of the board to set the right projection of blade from honing guide, so he didn't have to measure each time. Just set blade edge against stop block, slide guide to touch board edge and tighten up. Very quick, once set up.

So that's another idea for an oilstone and honing guide set-up.

 

[Cabinetman]

If you intend to sharpen freehand it’s important that you don’t alter the angle as you slide up and down the stone – fairly obvious, I have always used my knees as pivot points so that my upper body and arms are sort of locked in the same shape, difficult to explain, anybody else do it that way?
It’s got me thinking. I might have to video myself doing it, I might be able to describe it then ha ha Ian

 

[Rorton]

Haha I saw a video with a chap describing a dance as he was sharpening. What also seems apparent is some people don’t just push the edge up and down the stone, but have the chisel at right angles to the stone and move it across that way

i recon you should do a video though!

 

[Cabinetman]

I think that would be just too embarrassing lol

 

[johnnyb]

you really never have to refresh the surface. im guessing that's the secret. a clogged stone and thick oil gives a finer hone!

 

[Bm101]

Just looking at idea of what others make for a box to store the stone, and noticed that people that use a honing guide, suggest putting some 1” blocks of wood at either end of the stone, flush with the top of the stone, this way the guides wheel can start to run on the block of wood and not the stone and then you can use the whole length of the stone.
seem like a good idea or just overkill?

View attachment 99912

It makes a lot of sense if you are using a jig, otherwise you are not only not using the whole stone, you are encouraging dishing a bit which leads to more stone maintenance. Before anyone jumps down my throat this is a long term issue and will affect softer stones more obviously.
So let's retain some sense of calm. *whistles*
I use the ultex diamond stones Rorton in a offcut sheet of mdf with a hole routed out so the stones sit flush. (So...sameish principle). At some point I want to buy/find/skipdip a bit of thick acrylic to replace the mdf as it's not ideal tbh and getting a bit 'raggy'. Plus I can stick a bit of scarysharp to it as a hone. I bought some a while back but haven't used it yet. Sometimes I use a veritas jig for repeatable results, mostly not if i'm just touching up an edge. The original idea was for ease of use with the jig but even freehand I find it's just easier everything being flush. Eventually I want a a 3 diamond sheet maybe A3 size I can hang on the wall out of the way on a screw to save space etc.

 

[D_W]

you really never have to refresh the surface. im guessing that's the secret. a clogged stone and thick oil gives a finer hone!

clogging on oilstones probably happens three ways:
1) swarf from the stone (crystolon stones do this with light oil - they need a lot of oil and a bath is better. with an oil bath, there isn't another hand grinding stone that comes remotely close, not even diamonds, regardless of how tough the steel is).
2) pinning (wire edge can come off on india stones, especially with stainless and A2, etc (v11 is stainless) - or just with soft steel) can end up on the surface and pinning mutilates edges
3) drying oil

1 and 3 solve themselves with the introduction of more oil (as long as a drying oil that shouldn't be used isn't too too old and dry (simple green soak usually loosens that stuff, but you can just grind it off, too).

2 needs something that grabs the pinning more than the stone, or abraded off

I never refresh an india stone, but will wire brush pinning off.

pinning looks like no big deal, you may feel it, etc. It's destroying an edge when a little point of metal sticks in the stone and nobody hones as much off as the pinning creates (it can easily create nicks 2 or 3 thousandths deep, meaning at least that much of the edge has to be removed to get a fresh edge, and it would take half an hour to hone that much off with most finish oilstones).

Hopefully this doesn't get too complicated to the starter of this thread. Freehand and oilstones is my mode of choice, period, and I've had at least 300 sharpening stones and have played with everything. I've had two wet grinders (both gone) have three wheel grinders right now and two belt grinders, and right above my sharpening station is a stone that cost $700. I prefer a simple hard middle stone and something cheap for finishing ,and a buffer is good to have once you get down sharpening to an apex.

I don't agree with jacob on the rounded bevel and if he were in the states, I'd show his edges under a scope to show why. He'll spend more sharpening time than I do and get a worse edge. It's OK if you're not finishing things with tools, but it's an easy issue to solve, biasing the process to create an edge that most people will never experience in about 30 seconds. For me, It's washita and then buffer, or on harder steels, india/washita/buffer. The really expensive stones are fun to figure out how to get the most out of and they can have interesting feels, but the work-a-day stones you can just use and beat on and do whatever you want and never feel like you have to be precious (and they're fast).

 

[Jacob]

If you intend to sharpen freehand it’s important that you don’t alter the angle as you slide up and down the stone

It's OK as long as you don't lift it. Basically you hone fast and hard at 30º but with a slight bias towards dipping so that you are backing off the bevel at the same time. It's how everybody used to sharpen from the stone age until about 1980 (?) when they started think about it, getting confused and making it difficult. I'm not sure how the obsession with flat bevels came from. I guess it's the beginners' injunction to avoid "rounding over" and getting an ever steeper bevel. This has been misunderstood by a whole generation. What I (and the whole world) used to do, could be called "rounding under" if that'd help!

....... I have always used my knees as pivot points so that my upper body and arms are sort of locked in the same shape, difficult to explain, anybody else do it that way?
It’s got me thinking. I might have to video myself doing it, I might be able to describe it then ha ha Ian

Can't wait! I've heard of these mysterious "locked joints" but the nearest I've ever got is a touch of arthritis. Be careful!

 

[Jacob]

.....

I never refresh an india stone, but will wire brush pinning off.

Same thing, Just a quick scrub and a wipe

pinning ......

Hopefully this doesn't get too complicated to the starter of this thread.

Ho ho ho! "Pinning" is a new one for me

......For me, It's washita and then buffer, or on harder steels, india/washita/buffer.....

For me it's Norton India medium to Norton India No 0 fine (might be obsolete it's a number on an old double-sided stone) followed by buffer on leather plus Autosol or on an mdf disc. I've got lots of others including Arkansas with which I have a fiddle with but they seem a bit useless.