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Charnwood SS16F Charnwood Scroll Saw with Variable Speed Scroll...

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BigKen

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Hi folks, I've been lurking about here for a couple of months now & interested in moving into scroll saw work. I have seen the benefits of a top-class machine and have looked at buying a Hegner, and got some great advice here! However, I feel it may be prudent to spend £100/150 on a saw just to get started and help me know whether it's something I want to go mainstream with and in looking around I came upon the above (Charnwood Ss16f Charnwood Scroll Saw With Variable Speed Scroll Saw With Flexible Drive And Foot Switch CH/SS16F from Westcountry Machinery 4 Wood) - am wondering if anyone has any knowledge of this or any other recommendations? Thanks so much!
Ken
 

bjm

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I can't comment on that saw as scrolling is not something I engage in very often. I would say suggest that were you to buy a higher spec machine, and decide it wasn't for you, it would be easier to sell that on than a budget model.
 

BigKen

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I can't comment on that saw as scrolling is not something I engage in very often. I would say suggest that were you to buy a higher spec machine and decide it wasn't for you, it would be easier to sell that on than a budget model.
Thanks, Brian, I know what you mean, just a case of balance - I feel I'd rather spend £130 and lose most of it if it didn't work our than spend £700/800 and lose half of that but I do appreciate your input :)
 

akirk

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It looks absolutely identical to the Record Power one I bought last week - same price, but mine didn't have the foot pedal / rotary shaft (I have a Dremel anyway, so don't need that bit)

news so far - from someone with few skills :) - very nice machine which seems to cut straight (or curved as required!) - one tip I took was to also get some 3rd party higher quality blades - though to be fair I haven't tested them yet... - variable speed is good, light is good, blower works well

very happy and I was of the same view as you - it is a more disposable amount of money if it doesn't work out (i.e. I don't enjoy doing it) - Record Power has a 5 year warranty, and I bought through Amazon, so zero risk in reliability causing me issues I will just return it...

it also gives me the excuse to buy another one in the future if I enjoy it and wish to upgrade :)
 

bjm

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...than spend £700/800 and lose half ...
Ah, I didn't realise the price differential was that high!! Last time I looked at a Hegner I'm sure they were a lot less than that - must be longer than I care to admit :)
 

Blister

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It looks absolutely identical to the Record Power one I bought last week - same price, but mine didn't have the foot pedal / rotary shaft (I have a Dremel anyway, so don't need that bit)

news so far - from someone with few skills :) - very nice machine which seems to cut straight (or curved as required!) - one tip I took was to also get some 3rd party higher quality blades - though to be fair I haven't tested them yet... - variable speed is good, light is good, blower works well

very happy and I was of the same view as you - it is a more disposable amount of money if it doesn't work out (i.e. I don't enjoy doing it) - Record Power has a 5 year warranty, and I bought through Amazon, so zero risk in reliability causing me issues I will just return it...

it also gives me the excuse to buy another one in the future if I enjoy it and wish to upgrade :)
I think you may need to confirm re the guarantee , I was told when I had a problem the the guarantee is 1 year on the electrics and 5 years on the machine , This may have changed .
 

Blister

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Ah, I didn't realise the price differential was that high!! Last time I looked at a Hegner I'm sure they were a lot less than that - must be longer than I care to admit :)
Look on the site that begins with a ( e ) and you have lots of good used machines at much lower prices
 

akirk

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I think you may need to confirm re the guarantee , I was told when I had a problem the the guarantee is 1 year on the electrics and 5 years on the machine , This may have changed .
Happy with that - in reality, a year is good enough to know whether it is total rubbish - or usable!
 

BigKen

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Ah, I didn't realise the price differential was that high!! Last time I looked at a Hegner I'm sure they were a lot less than that - must be longer than I care to admit :)
Yes, scary isn't it! TBH the basic Hegner starts at just over £500 but if decided to go that way I'd want the one at near £900! If spending that type of cash down the line I'd also covet a Pegas but, no dealer in the UK AFAICS, so I'd have to pay over €100 to get it from Germany and then what happens with warranty etc?
 

AES

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Big Ken, you'd (probably) be surprised how often Q's like yours come up in this Section. AND the - very understandable - dilemma you face IF you later find out you don't take to scrolling comes up often too. So you have my sympathies mate.

But the fact is, AFAIK (and that goes for several other members much more knowledgeable than I) you have 2 basic choices (of course!):

1. Wait and see what turns up on "the bay", etc, etc, and take a POSSIBLE risk - there are some real bargains to be had, but also some over-priced lemons, OR;

2. Buy new. If going option 2 then you have a further "sub-choice" to make - buy a "cheapo" so that potential losses are minimised IF you decide to give up later, OR buy a good'un (Hegner is perhaps the best example of a real "R-R machine).

BUT though I'm not in UK I know that at current prices you can easily spend a grand (£s) or more for Hegner, whereas a machine such as you suggest can vary from under a hundred quid (Aldi Lidl, when in stock) to easily a couple of hundred or more. Someone above has said "your" Charnwood looks like his Record, and that's not surprising because it seems that ALL of the below a couple of hundred quid machines come out of the same one or two Chinese factories - usually the difference/s are only colour, badge/s, and the number of "goodies" included/excluded. For example "your" Charnwood includes a light AND a foot switch - both useful accessories IMO - AND the price is "only" <150 quid - not too bad at all.

It would be "more than nice" if that Charnwood will take both pinned and pinless blades (perhaps you can download the Manual and check) but either way, make no mistake, either way it WILL cut(!) AND will be a pretty good (but not the best) intro to scrolling generally.

So IF you go that route and decide that scrolling's not for you, you won't have lost too much, though as already pointed out by someone above, you're likely to only get a few quid for it SH, whereas if you bought a new Hegner (example) and decided to sell that, you'd almost certainly get at least 50% of the new price, perhaps 60% or even more if it was really almost new and in 1st class nick - but that's still a BIG loss against the price of whatever new Hegner model you decided to buy and then compare that to the, say, 100 quid loss you'd have on selling the Charnwood.

As I said at the start it really is a BIG problem to decide for anyone in your position, but I'm afraid all of us "bystanders" can only offer well-meaning advice. It really does depend on what you want/need.:)

If it's any help at all I had a very old Dremel Moto Shop scroll back in the mid 80's, realised it's limitations, scrapped it in the noughties to buy a similar saw to "your" Charnwood", but when I got "really serious" about scrolling I gave that 2nd machine away to someone who wanted to start off, and bought an Excalibur 21 (NOT the Axminster version) 5 years ago (which at the time cost roughly 700 Euros). Doing my sums I would have saved money if I had bought that at the start, back in the mid 80's, but of course I didn't know then what I know now!!!!!!

All NO help really, I know, but "HTH" anyway, and good luck!
 
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Droogs

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@BigKen having had a look at the specs etc on the website, the main concern with these types of saws is as far as I can see covered. It is being offered with the ability to take both pinned and pinless blades. this is the biggest bu99eration factor regarding these "cheaper" machines. As pinned only severely limits what you can do. This seems to be on the face of it a reasonable bit of kit for the price and capacity. Will it do to see if the bug bites, probably yes. Will you soon outgrow it; more than likely. the main thing is it is a Charnwood badged machine. Even though it is a clone droid just like 90% of all the other machines out there, Charnwood do not have the best reputation for having reliable components inside. Built to a price rather than a spec. But if you use decent blades like Pegas and don't try to do intarsa with 2x4 then you should be fine in terms of usability.

Perhaps if reliability does feature then perhaps be prepared to spend a little more and get a Dewalt/Record/Ryobi machine and pay the extra for the pedal etc.


all the best with whatever you decide
 

Blister

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Hegner UK have a site , If you intend buying new

 

Blister

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I have far to many scroll saws , 3 Hegners inc a Pollycut 3 , A RBI Hawk painted green and sold by Record Power , And a Diamond
 

akirk

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The cut-outs on the top bar are to place the adaptors for pinless blades - you use them to tension the blade correctly... so yes, it will take both pinned / pinless...

when I looked though all the advice on here - there were many good points made - but ultimately each person needs to make a decision based on where they are... e.g. advice on saws which are very easy to change blade (quick release etc.) is valuable - but for me it was not worth the extra money - ultimately the saw needs to make a blade go up and down - if it can take either type of blade, then the blade is an irrelevance - you can buy any, so as long as the saw has a flat table / perpendicular to the blade etc. then it should work sufficiently well enough... and there is a big difference between £130 and the new cost of a Hegner equivalent - yes you can buy them on ebay, but... condition is unknown and there is no warranty... so you are risking quite a lot of money (ebay c. £200 - £500) for the option of a better machine which functionally doesn't offer huge amounts more for a beginner...
 

Blister

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The cut-outs on the top bar are to place the adaptors for pinless blades - you use them to tension the blade correctly... so yes, it will take both pinned / pinless...

when I looked though all the advice on here - there were many good points made - but ultimately each person needs to make a decision based on where they are... e.g. advice on saws which are very easy to change blade (quick release etc.) is valuable - but for me it was not worth the extra money - ultimately the saw needs to make a blade go up and down - if it can take either type of blade, then the blade is an irrelevance - you can buy any, so as long as the saw has a flat table / perpendicular to the blade etc. then it should work sufficiently well enough... and there is a big difference between £130 and the new cost of a Hegner equivalent - yes you can buy them on ebay, but... condition is unknown and there is no warranty... so you are risking quite a lot of money (ebay c. £200 - £500) for the option of a better machine which functionally doesn't offer huge amounts more for a beginner...
Really ? build quality is a big one for me , Most of the cheap and chearfull saws lack in this department
 

akirk

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Really ? build quality is a big one for me , Most of the cheap and chearfull saws lack in this department
It depends on what you mean by quality - and it is also a financial decision...

If by quality you mean a saw which will last 30 years, then yes financially it is a better cost per year - however, that is balanced against the risk factor of whether it is something I will do for 30 years! If not - i.e. buying the saw is a test - then actually it could financially be a much worse decision - if not used after the first 6-12 months, then this has cost me c. £10 p/m - v. maybe £60 p/m+

If by quality you mean that the cheaper saw is not fit for purpose, then that should be easy enough to detect within the first 12 months - pop a message to Amazon and it goes back for a full refund / replacement -> very low risk.

unless the quality actually stops the saw being used as designed, then paying £130 is a low risk, easy financial decision for testing whether or not I will enjoy using the tool... in other times I would sign up to a course / find evening classes to test whether I liked it - but they are not running, so over-all it is a much simpler decision to spend £130 than £700+ and so far, the evidence is that the saw is sufficient quality for what I need...

I know that online you often see stories of people having issues - but those cases make good threads and good reading so get published - the person who buys a saw, and it just does what it should rarely comes on to post that - in reality, while I don't know how many are being sold I suspect that the answer is many more good ones than bad ones :)
 

Blister

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OK as the age old saying goes " You pay the money and make the choise " Hope all goes well and does not drive you mad :)
 

BigKen

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Big Ken, you'd (probably) be surprised how often Q's like yours come up in this Section. AND the - very understandable - dilemma you face IF you later find out you don't take to scrolling comes up often too. So you have my sympathies mate.

But the fact is, AFAIK (and that goes for several other members much more knowledgeable than I) you have 2 basic choices (of course!):

1. Wait and see what turns up on "the bay", etc, etc, and take a POSSIBLE risk - there are some real bargains to be had, but also some over-priced lemons, OR;

2. Buy new. If going option 2 then you have a further "sub-choice" to make - buy a "cheapo" so that potential losses are minimised IF you decide to give up later, OR buy a good'un (Hegner is perhaps the best example of a real "R-R machine).

BUT though I'm not in UK I know that at current prices you can easily spend a grand (£s) or more for Hegner, whereas a machine such as you suggest can vary from under a hundred quid (Aldi Lidl, when in stock) to easily a couple of hundred or more. Someone above has said "your" Charnwood looks like his Record, and that's not surprising because it seems that ALL of the below a couple of hundred quid machines come out of the same one or two Chinese factories - usually the difference/s are only colour, badge/s, and the number of "goodies" included/excluded. For example "your" Charnwood includes a light AND a foot switch - both useful accessories IMO - AND the price is "only" <150 quid - not too bad at all.

It would be "more than nice" if that Charnwood will take both pinned and pinless blades (perhaps you can download the Manual and check) but either way, make no mistake, either way it WILL cut(!) AND will be a pretty good (but not the best) intro to scrolling generally.

So IF you go that route and decide that scrolling's not for you, you won't have lost too much, though as already pointed out by someone above, you're likely to only get a few quid for it SH, whereas if you bought a new Hegner (example) and decided to sell that, you'd almost certainly get at least 50% of the new price, perhaps 60% or even more if it was really almost new and in 1st class nick - but that's still a BIG loss against the price of whatever new Hegner model you decided to buy and then compare that to the, say, 100 quid loss you'd have on selling the Charnwood.

As I said at the start it really is a BIG problem to decide for anyone in your position, but I'm afraid all of us "bystanders" can only offer well-meaning advice. It really does depend on what you want/need.:)

If it's any help at all I had a very old Dremel Moto Shop scroll back in the mid 80's, realised it's limitations, scrapped it in the noughties to buy a similar saw to "your" Charnwood", but when I got "really serious" about scrolling I gave that 2nd machine away to someone who wanted to start off, and bought an Excalibur 21 (NOT the Axminster version) 5 years ago (which at the time cost roughly 700 Euros). Doing my sums I would have saved money if I had bought that at the start, back in the mid 80's, but of course I didn't know then what I know now!!!!!!

All NO help really, I know, but "HTH" anyway, and good luck!
Thanks AES, you summed the situation up very well - just going to have to bite the bullet one of these days. I see lots of interesting things on 'E' but mostly in GB and being in NI I just can't jump in the car and go see! Thanks as always !
 
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