Changing door hardware

[Mjward]

So I've just removed all the old hardware from 6 internal doors as the Edwardian doors are being sent off to be stripped/filled/sanded.

When it comes to new hardware, should I be filling all the holes made by the previous stuff and cutting out fresh or what's the process there?

For hinges it seems fairly straightforward but for the door mechanisms this seems potentially complex given the old system consumer a very large cut out in the frame Vs modern ones are tiny in comparison

 

[Mark18PLL]

Might be an idea to put some photos on of what you are dealing with, its very hard to comment without seeing,

 

[Mjward]

I wish I could, doors are now in the workshop for next 6-8 weeks.

Essentially within the frame was a very large "cassette" for the door opening mechanism, I would ballpark it at 10cm high, 15cm long and maybe 1-2cm wide. Within this cassette it also housed the lock mechanism.

But as this is for internal doors to common rooms like the lounge, dining etc, I won't be replacing with locks, just standard openings.

Replacing this

With something like this

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Are the doors to be painted?

 

[Bingy man]

I personally would plug and patch all holes and the very large mortice lock with suitable timber unless the doors are to be stained/ varnished then it won’t have to be matched to the original doors . If the frame has a similar sized plate to the lock then do this as well ( you may have to deepen these to make it viable) cut shims and glue and clamp into place and leave overnight if possible. Plane , trim and sand flush the next day and fit your new hardware to suit once doors are rehung . A bit time consuming but end result is worth it . As per pics - hope this is what you mean ..

 

[Bingy man]

I personally would plug and patch all holes and the very large mortice lock with suitable timber unless the doors are to be stained/ varnished then it won’t have to be matched to the original doors . If the frame has a similar sized plate to the lock then do this as well ( you may have to deepen these to make it viable) cut shims and glue and clamp into place and leave overnight if possible. Plane , trim and sand flush the next day and fit your new hardware to suit once doors are rehung . A bit time consuming but end result is worth it . As per pics - hope this is what you mean ..

Be careful plugging the doors that the pieces you insert are not to wide as with a mortice that deep and wide you can easily split the door, as with the frames glue and leave overnight and simply plane flush the next day ..

 

[Mjward]

Good advice and sounds better than a whole heap of wood filler. Sounds like shaving a mm off the mortice plug could be prudent too and just allowing wood glue to fill gaps.

Re finish, nothing set in stone at this stage. They are currently varnished hallway facing and white on room internal. Most likely will paint to match room colours on internal and undecided on hallway facing.

 

[croft36]

Good advice and sounds better than a whole heap of wood filler. Sounds like shaving a mm off the mortice plug could be prudent too and just allowing wood glue to fill gaps.

Re finish, nothing set in stone at this stage. They are currently varnished hallway facing and white on room internal. Most likely will paint to match room colours on internal and undecided on hallway facing.

As the doors are being retained I would be cleaning up the original door furniture and refitting it to retain the Edwardian character!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I would look into reversing the doors - hang them on the other side. It would make fitting new hinges and a tubular latch easier. Assuming of course that they haven't been butchered to fit odd openings. Sometimes it works well, sometimes it doesn't.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

My friend walked into the pub one night, knackered. He said he'd just finished stripping the last piece of white paint in his house in order to varnish everything. What a coincidence, I said, I've just this week finished painting all the stripped pine in mine white. Often the joinery was rougher than guts because it was made to be painted.

 

[Bingy man]

Good advice and sounds better than a whole heap of wood filler. Sounds like shaving a mm off the mortice plug could be prudent too and just allowing wood glue to fill gaps.

Re finish, nothing set in stone at this stage. They are currently varnished hallway facing and white on room internal. Most likely will paint to match room colours on internal and undecided on hallway facing.

If painted both sides you will not have to be super accurate, as you will probably have to use filler here and there , as Phil p says in his reply “ the joinery was rougher than guts “ you may be surprised when your doors come back from being stripped. No doubt there will be small dents/holes that may have been filled over the years . If you use varnish all of these imperfections may be visible. Regarding the original hardware I assumed from your pics that you don’t want to reuse them but don’t throw them out. Some where probably on this site they will be useful to someone else ( listed building or a restoration project etc)

 

[MikeJhn]

I would re-furbish the old hardware and fit it all back on to keep the Edwardian look, plus it will be less work.

 

[Doug71]

As the doors are being retained I would be cleaning up the original door furniture and refitting it to retain the Edwardian character!

I have done quite a bit of work on an old listed hall which is local to me, it has exactly the same type of locks in all the doors. Some of the locks are failing but we will be replacing them like for like as the same size ones are still available.

Some of the doors have been stripped and there is no evidence of old rim locks having been on the doors so I presume the large mortice lock cases are original to the doors but I am no expert on the subject.

As others have said I would consider saving yourself the hassle and sticking with the original style.

 

[Woody Alan]

All good points and agree with Doug if you can get like for like is the best way to go. But just for feedback if you must chnange them don't use tubular latched, they will wear and be janky after a short time and never "feel" quality. I used something like this https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk...ase-57mm-backset-satin-stainless-steel-731188 on all my door replacements so fit once and won't need to revisit for many years. There isn't enough room in a tubular to fit a quality mechanism and get the actions needed. You only have to go in a new housing developement in a year old property to find how rubbish they are.
I also patched all hinge position and lock keeps as shown and then fitted quality ball bearing hinges (3 per door) worth doing it properly.
Alan

 

[Mjward]

I've gone down the road before of "preservation" and I ended up with Victorian hardware I never liked the look of, did operate as fluidly as I would like, but just had them because of the notion it was the right thing to do. This time around, I've taken the house back to brick and building something that will do me for the next 50 years (if I make it!), which means in many instances replacing with new (in this instance I've got a friend who bizarrely collects things like this so he is holding the box of old hardware)

Will definitely look at those latches Alan as they look quality and not worth scrimping a few quid vs tubular. Interesting you went for 3 hinges, was only considering replacing like for like ie with 2 but I guess given how heavy/solid these doors are, I see no harm in 3. With the amount of work going in elsewhere, I don't mind fittings that take a bit longer to fit but last a lot longer.

 

[Bingy man]

All good points and agree with Doug if you can get like for like is the best way to go. But just for feedback if you must chnange them don't use tubular latched, they will wear and be janky after a short time and never "feel" quality. I used something like this https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk...ase-57mm-backset-satin-stainless-steel-731188 on all my door replacements so fit once and won't need to revisit for many years. There isn't enough room in a tubular to fit a quality mechanism and get the actions needed. You only have to go in a new housing developement in a year old property to find how rubbish they are.
I also patched all hinge position and lock keeps as shown and then fitted quality ball bearing hinges (3 per door) worth doing it properly.
Alan

These look real good quality and stainless steel too. Have saved this link for my next door job. Good price to given your comments on modern day tubular latches which is true unfortunately.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Interesting you went for 3 hinges, was only considering replacing like for like ie with 2 but I guess given how heavy/solid these doors are, I see no harm in 3 ...

I've never fitted any door with fewer than three.

 

[Doug71]

Sometimes on old places where the frames are really bent you are better off using just 2 hinges because if the centre of all three hinges isn't in line you can have problems.

 

[Bingy man]

Sometimes on old places where the frames are really bent you are better off using just 2 hinges because if the centre of all three hinges isn't in line you can have problems.

Or old pre war council houses

 

[Ollie78]

As suggested by Woody Alan I would certainly avoid those tubular latches, they tend to be rubbish.
If you can find some square bodied ones with the same backset as the old stuff then all you need to do is pack out any size difference with some blocks of wood glued in.
For the hinges if re doing a door for whatever reason, I try to find hinges with a different hole drilling pattern, this way you dont need to fill the holes in.
So if 3 inch hinges were in there get 4 inch and use the tops or bottoms of the existing mortices to line them up, or if using the same size I find that different manufacturers use different patterns or if you go for grade 14 thrust bearing ( my favourite but not cheap ) they will have a different drilling to the same size traditional washer style.
Beware leaf thickness if they had cast iron ones before they are super thick compared to modern stuff.

Ollie