cc or ml?

UKworkshop.co.uk

Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
SammyQ":2k4cf5ck said:
hasten to add, as an S.I. trained Biologist, I am also adept in µm, degrees Kelvin and terabytes.
...

Did you get caught up in the nausea of having to learn MKS system and then transition to SI in 1960 ? that was fun.
Quite amusing when working with some continental folks who assumed that as they were already metric (MKS) Si would not require any design adjustments.
 
Briefly Chas; it's echo was still around in 1967 when I went to Grammar School; text books are always the last things to be brought up to date (and remember, this predated Tim Berners-Lee by 13 years, even though ARPANET was in existence and thriving). MKS was still taught, but there were more whacky mathematics diluting its impact, e.g. "set theory" - same lesson for weeks, nobody could see the point of inventing all those symbols for such a simplistic idea. Later, I became a teacher and realised "initiatives" in education were NOT necessarily empirical, objective or subject to Scientific Method, but instead were somebody's ego trip and they would sell their grannie and children to see it imposed.. S'pose they were a bit like failed, frustrated politicians, in that respect.
Systeme Internationale made life - and calculations in particular- SO much easier; outside engineering, Biologists had perhaps the most wide-ranging compendium of units interacting in their studies. It's fascinating now for me to refer my engineer son - working on a wi-fi knee brace - to John Maynard Smith's work on biological materials and biomechanics from 40 years ago.

Them wuz the days.
Sam
 
Ah, but with a model aircraft you have got to factor in the Reynolds number too, init :?

We have always measured the wing loading of our models using lbs per sq inch, pronounced 'lubs per sqinch'

You can calculate the Reynolds number by

Reynolds Number = Speed x Length / kinematic viscosity


Just as a matter of interest the size of a drop of a liquid varies with its temprature. Measured in either Farangrade or Centiheight :? :?
 
Having a background in building the (very large) tooling for the wind turbine blades it always used to befuddle me why kids nowadays are being taught centimeters at school when the 'norm' in engineering is meters and millimeters :shock:

I used to work with my father years ago (anyone remember the Gordon Keeble.? he was responsible for the tooling...) and we used a system of gnats, jimmies and tads.... "just a tad more..." or "a gnats whisker..." my missus couldn't get her head round this unwritten system and kept trying to 'use it' when we do stuff around the house. I've tried pointing out that she's using the wrong measurement for the application #-o and that its a system only male DNA understands [-X she just looks at me in sheer frustration.... :D :D :D




oh, nearly forgot..... she also laughs when i measure something.... "so thats 4 foot 7 inches by 16mm...." :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
The whole point about Reynolds Number Jon, and calculating it, is that any model is "just" a small aeroplane but "scaled down". Unfortunately you can't "scale" a "piece of air" (fluid) so as the RN becomes smaller (lower) in the model world, the more problematic it becomes. Do you have LE turbulators on your PSS models? The free flight competition glider boys do, and they work. But you don't see them on full size sailplanes (AFAIK) because they don't work as well, due, amongst other reasons, to the scaling problems.

It all becomes very "mystical", as is the whole (deep) study of aerodynamics. I knew a bloke once who was a professional aerodynamicist (at Westlands actually) who flew contest free flight gliders very successfully, and chatting with him once he admitted that some stuff goes on at model sizes which can't really be explained scientifically - and which he didn't really understand.
 
In pure science millimetres and metres are the norm. But, so many 'Joe Public' shops and outlets (woodyards?) have used centimetres, for so long it has become commonplace to think that they're acceptable. S.I. units are always in multiples of 10 to the power three: metres, millimetres, micrometres one way, kilometres etc the other way. It makes a lot of sense to do this when calculating as you can 'move' the powers of ten in , for example, calculating magnification. Powers of three allow transfer easily too when incorporating volumes; e.g. linear air flow might be in metres per second in your dust ducting, but litres per second in volume. Lxbxh: length times breadth times height, is a power of three in terms of indices, and calculations are easier if your units are in threes to match.
Sam
 
If you think about it a metre is only a yard with 10% inflation init :mrgreen: and it took Napolian Bony parts to come up with a measurement of 39 1/4"

And wots wrong with the system of gnats, jimmies and tads. And going on to torque loading, I was always taught that the correct torque loading for any bolt was up to shear/strip and then back a 1/4. It works for any size bolt/nut and it's easy to remember.

Going off subject for a mo, did you know that in France it is illegal to call a pig Napoleon :shock:
 
Something that fascinated me when we lived in France was that one day the Meteo bloke, weather forecaster, suddenly started to use litres/sq meter for rainfall. they had always used mm prior to that. When I checked to see what the hell he was on about I realised that 1 lt/sq metre is 1mm anyway. so, trying to confuse the masses???
 
DSCN2619.JPG


I used to work with a chippie years ago who always mixed measurements - I'd say Ivor, what do you need done? He'd say something like I need a piece of four by two two feet long with a 12mm groove a full three quarters of an inch deep thirty centimeters long starting a hundred mil from the end and an inch and a quarter in on the width - completely forgetting to specify which side he measured from. :D
 

Attachments

  • DSCN2619.JPG
    DSCN2619.JPG
    129.3 KB · Views: 337
Regarding the "correct" metric measurements of less than a metre being mm, not cm, I got news for you all.
I live in a metric country and every time I go to a woodyard or glazier or anything else that needs precise measurements I always go with a piece of paper with the numbers marked on it in mm to save language issues.

EVERY time, the person looks at my mm and frowns. This metric country uses centimetres. Except for softwood construction timber, which is in inches (dont ask, I gave up)

dont ask for 65mm, you wont get it. Ask for 6.5 cm and its there.

As usual, the UK adopted a system it did not understand, taught it wrongly, and decided that the rest of the world should adapt.
How many years did i have to buy 1/2" hosepipe by the metre?
 
Understood Bob; refer you to my comment above re'Joe Public'. Pedantry does not go down well with him/them. Casual use versus empirical use, I guess.

Sam
 
Not sure which 'metric country you are in Bob, but, once again, the French use metric for their plumbing until you get to the taps and several other compression joints where they go to 1/2" BSP. They have a quite cleaver system on the pipe work too. They use even numbers, 12, 14, 16, etc pipes with a 1mm wall thickness so if they change the size they can just glue the next size up or down with solder to the existing, or fix 2 lengths together with a bit the next size up.

I remember a mate of mine going into a woodyard about 20 years back and asking for a 10' length of 2" square. He was told that it would have to be a metric size, no problem there. When he asked how much it was he was told 10p it was 10p a foot!
 
I have exactly the same problem here (Switzerland) as sunnybob does in Cyprus. Personally I find cm VERY confusing (I KNOW it's simple, just factor 10) but anyway, when I want wood from the local DIY place I always write it in mm. What happens? Just like sunnybob says, the bloke immediately converts my mm into cm! But at least lengths here are in metres, not feet.

And like jonzjob in France, here water taps for example are half inch ("halb zoll") or three quarter (or even one inch) - I THINK the threads are BSP. How come?
 
Older Galvanised Steel water pipes in Bavaria are BSP. when I first started going to Bavaria I used to take the Inch-Metric converter fittings from the UK as the Bavarian DIY stores had the Metric copper pipes in stock but no conversion fittings.

I notice now that they have a penchant for Stainless Steel in new installations, presumably in metric.
 
Jonzjob, yes, the pipes are even numbers, but do the french actually say 16 mm, or do they say 1.6 cm?
The plumbing question is easy to answer. between america and the UK, we invented modern plumbing. All pipe and thread sizes were in imperial.
after almost 200 years, just try to imagine the number of old taps with imperial thread. It would cost the GDP of a medium sized country to throw all those old taps away.
I was fitting copper piping when mr smith screwed the world and we had to go to metric thin wall rather than english thick wall. THAT was fun, having to match different pipes all over the house with adaptors.

For one of the ultimate stupidities of mixed measurements, heres a goodun.
kawasaki motorcycles are metric thread. Obvious, the parent company is japanese. But they use two different metric threads, Fine, and Coarse. Both metric, both with the same measurement, but you just try to put an 8 mm fine nut on an 8 mm coarse thread.
It gets better.
That same motorcycle company makes liquid cooled engines. The temperature sensor and oil pressure sensors are not metric thread. The sensors are not made by kawasaki, they are bought in from a USA company. That thread is US 3/8"NPT.

Funny old world, innit?
 
This thread has made me dig out the most useful book I ever invested in during the latter days of my education:-
SI cover.jpg

It's also the only item I still have and I use it occasionally although I have a permanent link to an online converter which is much more convenient. The Introduction makes interesting reading with 50 years of hindsight (click on it to get full view):-
SI.jpg


I'm also reminded of the strawberries I bought in a German market not too many years ago. They were sold in pounds or pfunden auf Deutsch. This was supposed to be ½Kg but officially a pfund is .4677Kg which is 1.03lbs - interesting? maybe not.

Brian
 

Attachments

  • SI.jpg
    SI.jpg
    234.3 KB · Views: 290
  • SI cover.jpg
    SI cover.jpg
    124.1 KB · Views: 290
Back
Top