Cast steel edge tools

[mtr1]

when I first started as a apprentice cabinet maker, I was given a few chisels and old wooden planes by my grandfather. Now I still use these occasionally, when the mood takes me. Bearing in mind that I probably haven't sharpened them for a long time, mainly because they hold an edge so well. These all have cast steel stamped on them. Now my question is why do they not make cast steel edge tools any more? Is it just a cost thing, or are they produced, but of low quality?

Edited for spelling

 

[matthewwh]

They are still produced but of far more consistent quality and in a wide range of grades. The breadth of offerings means that they are now usually referered to by standard AISI or EN number although there are still specific sub-grades within each.

Most high-spec tool steels are still produced in a crucible of one kind or another as this allows the elemental makeup of the steel and therefore its characteristics to be controlled very accurately. The introduction of the bessemer process allowed the materials that went into the crucible to be produced more efficiently - hence the designation cast steel (as opposed to plain bessemer steel) to denote that the material had undergone further processing. As far as I'm aware all of the steel in the edge tools that we sell is cast. To write it on a tool now would be akin to writing 'electrically powered!' on a tablesaw.

The latest development is Powdered Metallurgy where the components are powdered and then heated under pressure - the pressure reduces the temperature required making them cheaper to produce and the use of powders makes it easy to control the recipe. Some have embraced this technology, others regard it as unproven.

edit - The reason many people still regard 'cast steel' tools as superior is that they hail from an age before accountants got involved in heat treatment. Many late 20th century tools were made from fantastic steel that was heat treated on the cheap using fast processes like induction hardening that delivered volume rather than accuracy. An induction hardened chisel can be anywhere from RC55 to RC61, so you get good uns and bad uns.

Thankfully we are now (hopefully) in an age where people appreciate proper hardening to +/-1RC rather than being drawn by the £3 for a set of six price tag from a shed and then bemoaning the quality. T'wernt the steel that was wrong, it was the toolmaking.

 

[yetloh]

Wouldn't attempt to add to what Matthew has said on the technical side but when looking at old chisels at boot sales or in secondhand tool shops the cast steel imprint is generally a good guide to quality. I have some myself and they are very good indeed.

Jim

 

[TheTiddles]

At some point in its life, all steel is cast, it has to come out the pot somehow!

From then it's rolled, pressed, extruded, bent, laminated, cut, forged, drawn, re-cast etc... all of which are massively traumatic processes so the steel by the time you have finished can be very different to how it started, though the composition can change it doesn't by much, however the number of forms steel can take is huge, the tables and graphs that show what phases form on what and when are about the size of the encyclopedia Brittanica, you can easily turn a tough, hard steel form into something like cheese if you treat it the right (or wrong) way.

Aidan

 

[Racers]

Hi,

All my chisels say Cast Steel on them, and some have to names stamped on the handles.

That is an old photo I have a biger tool rolll with more in now.
I all was but Cast Steel chisels from car boots and havent; been let down yet.

A quick Google comes up with

"Cast Steel" refers to steel made by the crucible cast steel method, invented in Sheffield around 1740 by Benjamin Huntsman (1707-1776), a clock maker from Doncaster. The process involves making blister steel by heating iron with a carburising material, effectively case hardening it, then melting the blister steel in a vessel (the "crucible") to distribute the carbon evenly throughout the material. The steel is then cast into ingots ready for forging.

Pete

 

[mtr1]

Thanks for the technical answers guys :? . I'm not being nostalgic or saying tools ain't as good as they used to be(I'm 38 how would I know). But I do Know that these older chisels of mine are at least comparable with Japanese chisels I've used in the past for edge holding, I have a lovely Ward bevel edge job that is fantastic. Is it just down to a cost why they don't make them like this anymore? Because some of these new edge tools are not cheap, at least compared to ones I've bought from boot fairs, that, dare I say it, are better than my AIs rich tea biscotti ones at the moment(I know I need to grind them I haven't had a chance yet) . And no I don't want to return them, I love the feel of them, and once ground I'm sure they will be excellent. Did my older chisels need grinding to get better? Just thought with this new age of hand toolery, they should be better(all new premium tools not just my chisels).

 

[Richard T]

I think that "cast steel" stamped on a piece would have set it apart from an "edged" piece - a laminate of crucible steel welded to wrought iron.
When the Bessemer process first burst upon the world it would have been a good selling point (although edged irons have certainly seen a revival in my shed of late and they do have their benefits; ask any passing Japanese planesmith) .
And chisels of that period and some decades later with Sheffield names on are well worth looking out for at bootsales etc. - unless they have pitted faces or the tell - tale bluing/strawing of being ground too hot on a bench grinder.
I've picked up some gorgeous chisels over the years - lots with box handles too.

 

[yetloh]

I've picked up some gorgeous chisels over the years - lots with box handles too.

Yes, me too, but I do share your enthusiasm for laminated Japanese tools. I have many Japanese chisels and also a couple of replacement plane blades, which I think are vastly underrated. Although they are little thicker than the standard Record or Stanley items (unlike many aftermarket plane blades where the extra thickness can often cause problems with adjuster mechanisms), they take a brilliant long lasting edge and perform superbly as long as the back iron fits properly just behind the edge. I have yet to try a tarditional Japanese pull plane with the very thick blade but hope to rectify that soon.

Jim

 

[woodbloke]

Yes, me too, but I do share your enthusiasm for laminated Japanese tools. I have yet to try a traditional Japanese pull plane with the very thick blade but hope to rectify that soon.

Jim

I agree about Japanese chisels, for edge retention and sharpness they simply are very difficult to better. I tried a couple of Japanese planes at Michael Huntley's 'shop a coupla weeks ago. He showed me how to set the iron and adjust it in the dai. I must say that the planing procedure (that of pulling) was not so difficult after all and I was using a lump of well seasoned English Oak. I'm sorely tempted to add one or four to the collection 8-[ :-" if i could find somewhere decent in the UK that sells them...and I don't count Rutlands either. It seems that Dick and Deiter Schmid have the best selection at the moment. I also seem to recollect that at one time Axminster used to sell them as well? - Rob

 

[Harbo]

I bought a smoother in white oak from Dicks a few years ago when they had a sale on .
Lovely plane to use - pulling or pushing.


Rod