Cast Iron or Aluminium?

[Adam]

Woody - that's such a serious budget, you don't need to concern yourself with aluminium or CI... Can you buy machines for £2000+ made from aluminium?
My inclination would be to avoid combination machines where poss if you want to do any kind of "production" work unless the machines are of such high quality that you can guarentee repeatablilty once you've altered the setup (Felder?).

I'd agree with Aragorn on this, can you even get aluminium on tables with a budget that large? Do Felder use aluminium on their sliding table?

I think the budget puts the machines out of a league where I can reasonable comment! Doesn't this put you into the world of Felder and others?

Given that's a serious amount of money, it's likely to be a large (physically and in electrical requirements) machine, possibly ones which are not offered in single-phase options, three phase only, so you'll need either a phase converter, or an electrician. Even if you can find them in single phase, you may need to get an electrician in to wire it up from a dedicated supply, as these are not going to be comparable to the supply requirements of a "normal tablesaw".

One comments on the P/T, With that budget, surely you won't have to make the comprimise that nearly all of us have made, which is either long beds and narrow blades, or shorter beds and wider blades? Twice last week I had to rip down some boards to get them into planer - and my planer is 26cm wide. I can't understand how you guys manage with only 8" planer knifes on your Jet - do you always use super thin stock for tables et al? Anyway, with a big budget it's irrelevent surely, as you get the benefits of both!

A final comment on seperate or joined planer thicknessers, for me, it takes less than 60 seconds to switch over, I simply lift a lever, lift and then lock the hinged table, flip over the extractor port and I'm finished. In my case, as I don't have the luxery of space, I'd have to lift the a seperate thicknesser from a storage space to somewhere to use it, and that'd actually take longer.


Adam

 

[johnelliott]

One option that hasn't been mentioned so far- would be to have a decent 12" planer thicknesser AND a long bed jointer. If I was doing a lot of hardwood work then that's a set up that would suit me nicely. I find that it's usually easy (with practice) to convert from planer to thicknesser quite quickly, what slows the process down is installing and adjusting the fence.

Aragorn, I mostly work with sheet materials now, so I'm not going to say that the Festool set up would joint hardwood with no discernible join. I have read that people have done this, though. If I did need to make a big table top then that is where I would start. One advantage it would have over a jointer is if the grain was a bit wild and changing direction over the length of the board
John

 

[Alf]

people who haven't already bought equipment can become even more confused and uncertain :twisted:

LOL! :lol:

 

[SimonA]

Howdy fella......

These seem to be pretty good machines....

http://www.woodmachinery.co.uk/rojek/

and they also do second hand recon older machines too.....well worth a look!

SimonA

 

[Adam]

Howdy fella......
These seem to be pretty good machines....
http://www.woodmachinery.co.uk/rojek/
and they also do second hand recon older machines too.....well worth a look! SimonA

These machines, (Like Felder in fact) seem to opt for cast iron on the RHS of the blade, and Aluminium extrusions for the sliding table on the LHS of the blade, so for all our arguments either way, the manufacturers (who presumably know a lot more than us) use both.

This presumably confirms that cast iron does allow the wood to slide easier, as it is on the RHS that the wood has to slide over the table, but the comments about the longevity of alumium in terms of having boards/planks dropped on them, seem not to be an issue, as most people will be using the sliding table for the majority of their work. I guess they also get better aly extrustions, and strength from an aluminimum sliding table, I suspect Cast Iron would be too brittle/difficult to cast, over these super long sliding tables a.l.a Felder.

Any comments from the original poster?

Adam

 

[johnelliott]

One advantage it would have over a jointer is if the grain was a bit wild and changing direction over the length of the board
John

Another advantage is that less space is required, just the length of the guide rail rather than twice the length of the material.

Also, while I think about it, easier on the back and arms to push the saw along the guide rather than have to lift a plank and run it across the jointer whilst keeping firm, steady pressure against the fence

John

 

[Woodythepecker]

I am sorry that i have not answered your messages before now but i have been working.

I must also put right a idiotic mistake, which was that i meant to put £2,500 for both and not £5,000. I hope that none of you feel like you have wasted your time because of this? It is not a very good start.

It seems that for some of you at least the ideal planer or planer/thicknesser would be a long bed and a wide blade, and i have to agree. The only trouble is does such a beast exist for my budget?
The only tables I have come across have either got a long bed with narrow blades, or in the case of the planer/thicknesser a wide blade with a short bed.
As for a separate thicknesser the ones i have seen (bench/small stand type) all have small in and out feed tables. Are the floor standing ones any different?

Cheers

Woody

 

[Bean]

Long and narrow castings can have a tendancy to warp/deflect and will be prone to breakage as they will not have a great deal of thickness, the cost for patterns will be high due to the complexity of the casting with all the strengthening ribs to try and prevent the warp/distortion.
In cases like this ali extrusions will be cost effective and have greater rigidity and durability.

I Think


Bean

 

[Midnight]

As for a separate thicknesser the ones i have seen (bench/small stand type) all have small in and out feed tables. Are the floor standing ones any different?

Woody....

strictly speaking, thicknesser in / outfeed tables don't need anything like the same length as a jointer; the practice should be that (assuming your board is roughcut but has had waney edges removed) you first joint one face until it's flat and out of twist. Flip that face up against the jointer fence and joint an edge. With the jointed face facing down and jointed edge against the table saw fence, rip the opposite edge. Back to the jointer, good face against the jointer fence and joint the newly sawn edge. That lot should give you one flat and true face and a pair of square and parallel sides (assuming the jointer fence is set square to the bed). To plane the remaining face, run it through the thicknesser, good side down; the idea being that the thicknesser will try to copy the profile of the jointed face.

With one known good face, to get a good parallel face on the opposite side, the short beds on thicknessers are usually up to the job, although additional support roller stands are helpfull when working with long sticks.

Even with your revised budget, you should definately be able to buy some buttkickin woodmunchers...

 

[Woodythepecker]

I have been looking at a second hand Startrite FS400 planer/thicknesser which is on sale for £2,000 (nearly £4,000 when new), but the only trouble it is 3 phase.
The dealer told me that all i need to run this in my workshop is a 3 phase to 1 phase inverter? Is it as easy as that? There is someone on ebay selling one of these (LG Electronics) for £160.

It seems a very good machine with 16 inch wide and 80 inch long beds. It has 3 blades, and the thicknesser has a digital read out. When converting from planer to thicknesser the two beds open up together and you can lift them with one hand. I think that this must be one of their selling points as the dealer kept on showing me how easy it is to lift it up and down.

Has any of you had any experience of this machine?

I am very tempted to buy it, but before i do is there anything i should be looking out for?

Many thanks

Woody

 

[ProShop]

Just a thought.
Do you need a 16 inch wide P/T. Segwick do a 12 inch P/T with NO planer bed lifting needed, so no resetting needed, single phase, new, just a tad over £2000. If I remember correctly even the fence is cast iron.

 

[Midnight]

Woody....

strictly speaking you can run the machine with a converter, but it'll never be running at 100%.. canna beat the real McCoy... other than that it sounds like a buttkicker....

an alternative might be to consider having the motor and switch gear changed to single phase, but this would definitely involve a dedicated high current supply from the dis. board. Converting wouldn't be cheap........but if this is a long term investment.....it may be worth it in the long run....