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Cascamite not setting properly

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Halo Jones

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Hi All,

I have been doing a large number of window repairs during lockdown/summer. Getting rid of all the rot has meant I have been splicing in replacement parts. I have been using cascamite for all the repairs and so far not had a problem. I'm on window 11 of 19 and just opened a new pot of cascamite (same brand and bought at the same time as the first pot) and the glue has decided not to set properly. It has skinned over but not gone totally hard. I has been raining overnight but I reckon the glue had about 8 hours to set before the rain set in. I mixed it 2 parts cascamite:1 part water (by volume) as I have previously and it seemed to mix together ok (ie it went really stiff and almost crumbly before turning into a nice paste). Anyone have any ideas what has gone wrong? Is it just the weather? Can you get dodgy batches? Does it go off? Should I just leave it a day or two and see if it sets?!
 

CHJ

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2-1 by volume does not sound right, that is the recommended mix by weight.

On original formula Cascamite I mix 3-1/2 to 1 (powder to water) resulting in a runny honey consistency, certainly not a 'paste'.


If the mix on original formula Cascamite shows any form of graininess when mixed as above to runny consistency, to me it's a sign that the powder has deteriorated due to moisture contamination and is not to be trusted.


The new formula Cascamite has been the subject of numerous problems and tales of unreliable mixes , a search of the forum should point to several threads on the subject.
 

deema

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The crumbling before it goes to a paste is the classic symptom of when it’s gone off normally due to absorbing water. I’ve had it also from a brand new pot of the ‘original’ formulation. I’m afraid you will need to dig out and redo. I now always do a trial on any new pot and also after leaving it for abortion between used.
 

Halo Jones

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Sorry. Should have done a search first. The batch of the tub I just opened is 32435. Exactly the same as the one that Chris had trouble with. Anyone have the contact details for Polyvine and a batch number that is good?!

Thanks,

H.
 

Mike Jordan

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I had a 1.5 kilo tub of "Polyvine" Cascamite from Axminster, I've been using the glue for more than fifty years, but fortunately I'd heard stories of failure so made a batch and left it to set. It only ever went rubbery and never set hard. I contacted Axminster who said there was a better version but offered no further help. I then wasted time with a call to Polyvine here a female seemed to read from a script and told me that water must have entered the sealed container. I have never before known the product to fail in any way and I've always found it very tolerant to any mixing method, it's now not worth the risk of having to do the job again so it's finished as far as I see it I think it's to low in price for anyone to try and solve the problem and show a profit. The two firms named are still selling it and must be ignoring any complaints. The only answer is not to buy the carp and of course tell the woodworking world!
 

Halo Jones

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Given the variable quality of this glue what are the alternatives for exterior joinery repairs. I've got a bottle of Titebond3, should I just use that?
 

Mike Jordan

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Tote bond three is waterproof so why not? I've been using West epoxy, it's expensive but very reliable. I'm thinking of trying Aerolite in the future.
 

Woody2Shoes

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+1 for Everbuild D4 or Titebond 3 or (if quick) EvoStik polyeurethane wood glue
 

Phil Pascoe

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Titebond 3 is 2/3/4 times the price of Everbuild D4. I can't speak for TB but D4 is a bit of a nightmare for going off so quickly at the moment. I used it this afternoon and two minutes after I'd placed (not cramped) the parts they couldn't be moved.
 

toolsntat

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So, just what was wrong with the old fashioned Cascamite, why change it ?

I happened on a jam jar full of it last night and did a little mix to see if it was ok.
Perfect result and been there that long I cannot remember where I borrowed it from :roll:

Cheers Andy
 

CHJ

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toolsntat":24a0tvc3 said:
So, just what was wrong with the old fashioned Cascamite, why change it ?
I believe Peter said that the original source of main ingredient was in Iraq and it dried up, replacement sources or alternate composition doesn't seem to have performed the same or been consistent.
 

Woody2Shoes

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Phil Pascoe":2ligeiks said:
Titebond 3 is 2/3/4 times the price of Everbuild D4. I can't speak for TB but D4 is a bit of a nightmare for going off so quickly at the moment. I used it this afternoon and two minutes after I'd placed (not cramped) the parts they couldn't be moved.
I keep my D4 in the fridge along with the rawlkem resin...
 

Phil Pascoe

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Aerolite is a superb glue, although expensive - it did a good job keeping Mosquitoes in the air. It sets quite quickly but the hardener is applied to one side, the glue to the other so for many purposes it isn't difficult to use - they are not mixed as an epoxy. The hardener for Aerolite iirc is phosphoric acid - there used to be marketed a rapid hardener for Cascamite, which iirc was formic acid - if the hardener was mixed with the powder rather than put on the other side of the joint it would go iff in a couple of minutes. (I don't think Aerolite sets without the hardener whereas Cascamite obviously does.) I may have got the acids the wrong way around, but I don't think so (I googled, but keep getting referred to my own posts :D - either way, I tried both glues with both acids and they both set.
 

Phil Pascoe

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Woody2Shoes":3nlqq0kc said:
Phil Pascoe":3nlqq0kc said:
Titebond 3 is 2/3/4 times the price of Everbuild D4. I can't speak for TB but D4 is a bit of a nightmare for going off so quickly at the moment. I used it this afternoon and two minutes after I'd placed (not cramped) the parts they couldn't be moved.
I keep my D4 in the fridge along with the rawlkem resin...
I tried getting the table into the fridge, but it just wouldn't go in. :D My fridge runs at about 2/3c which isn't really good for D4 either. The CA is there, though.
 

Peter Sefton

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I have found the Titebond glues to be very good, D4 is great but has a very short shelf life of 3 months as opposed to 24 months for most glues.

The main advantage to UF glues (Cascamite) are their extra working time and gap filling abilities, we used "Cascamite" for veneering, laminating or complicated glue ups where white or yellow glues would have grabbed or gone solid before the job was glued up.

The factory making one of the key components for Cascamite stopped producing it 18 months ago and all went downhill from there. Polyvine may have now sorted out the issues but we had lots of problems with several replacement batches before moving onto One Shot.

We use power/resin UF glues for veneering as it gives better thickness feedback when rolling on has a shorter cure time when pressing.

https://www.adkwik.co.uk/adhesives/veen ... rdener-kit

Chas I will hunt out the paperwork and try and post it later but the One Shot is mixed and works in the same manor as old Cascamite.

Cheers Peter
 
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