Cannot align fence, how do you guys do it ?

[jigsaw]

Hello again, second and final question for this evening.

I have just taken up woodworking and I have bought a bandsaw, its a Charnwood W711 just a desktop unit and its very quiet.

I am having much trouble with aligning the fence and I think its more me than the bandsaw.

When I go to align the fence with the markers at the side of it and I press down the locking mechanism to lock it in place at say 80mm, the fence is usually totally off at an angle, so when I run wood down it its getting cut totally not square.

I had a go with another bandsaw in B&Q and I found the same problem, I cannot get the fence to be totally straight regardless of how I position it at one end, it always veers off at the rear of the table.

Any ideas what I am doing wrong here ? and could somebody please tell me the correct way to set the fence so that I get clean level cuts every time, that would be a really great help.

Thanks again

 

[carlb40]

Have a look in the manual and see if it shows how to adjust the fence square to the front rail and or the mitre slot.

 

[jigsaw]

Hey Carl.

I have just looked in the manual and all it says is the rip fence can be used as shown, and its just attached to the large metal plate, it doesn't give me any more instruction than that.

I did email Charnwood who said...

"First of all just check the front edge of the table for damage. Assuming that is OK, the black part of the fence clamps up against the front of the table.
Turn the fence upside down and check the silver part is at 90 degrees to the black part. Ideally using a set square if you have one.
It might be worth loosening the the two bolts on top of the fence, check the alignment and then retighten them.

When the fence is locked down, is the back end tight or moving. It may also be necesary to rotate the locking lever at the front of the fence to adjust the tension on the rear clamp."

Thing is I tried all that and its either too stiff to slide and if thats not the case it just wobbles up the plate.

I wondered if it was something I am doing wrong, but I cant seem to get this straight, I have been using a ruler and I measure each side and then try and sand afterwards to get a level cut but it would be nice to just run clean cuts off this band saw.

 

[CHJ]

Be careful what you are attempting here.

Yes the fence should be adjustable and be capable of clamping true (at 90deg. to the table front edge) and any mitre guide slots.

However even with a correctly set fence there is no guarantee that a bandsaw will cut a true straight line if the blade is not good (sharp and accurate balanced tooth set) and tracking correctly.

The former is to be resolved in sorting out the fence fixing/clamping.
The latter is down to correct set-up of known good blade tracking and guides.

A good fence and bad blade or blade set-up will still produce off line cuts.

 

[jigsaw]

Thanks for that CHJ.

My machine is brand new, I have only done about 10 cuts with it, I have just tried it again and the rear of the fence is just sliding about all over the place, if I tighten it sticks and with a ruler its up to half an inch out and I just can't get it level to do a straight cut, I am trying to get round this with a ruler and measuring across the table from the fence to the edge but its not an ideal method.

 

[carlb40]

I have just watched this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wgsG2tWDbk

From what i can see the fence clamps front and rear like on some panel cutting guides. They use an internal bar to keep the tension, which looks like a similar set up on you fence.

http://www.charnwood.net/files/shop/pro ... -6_750.jpg

So if there is a nut at the rear of the fence? Check to make sure it is tight and you get good pressure when using the front lever.

EDIT

Axi version of the charnwood, same style of fence. Manual here

http://www.axminster.co.uk/media/downlo ... manual.pdf

Page 7 / 8 shows you how to adjust the tension on the locking lever - Turn it clockwise by approx 2 rotations. - Should more than enough according to the axi manual.

 

[jigsaw]

Awesome reply there Carl, thanks for taking the time to find that out mate, much more than I could manage.

Looking at the PDF, I think I may have an inferior band saw, the axminster one looks great, the fence has a T slot (guide rail) that it goes into to keep it level, it looks impossible to get out of line, mine doesn't have that luxury, it just has a lip on the bottom of the clamp on both sides and it just slides around where it wants, I can see the benefit in that T slot, it would be impossible to have my kind of problem with that.

This is how mine looks, it doesn't have the T slot guide on this model:

There isnt a bolt at the rear, it is tightened by rotating the clamp handle at the front.

Maybe I will just have to learn to live with it and use a sanding block on all my cuts after to try and make them level, I guess you get what you pay for, this was only £124.

Appreciate the post mate

 

[andersonec]

Thanks for that CHJ.

My machine is brand new, I have only done about 10 cuts with it, I have just tried it again and the rear of the fence is just sliding about all over the place, if I tighten it sticks and with a ruler its up to half an inch out and I just can't get it level to do a straight cut, I am trying to get round this with a ruler and measuring across the table from the fence to the edge but its not an ideal method.

If it's brand new and 'not fit for purpose' ask for a refund and send it back.

Andy

 

[paulm]

Agree with Andy, send it back for a refund and look for a better quality/designed model.

Cheers, Paul

 

[Eric The Viking]

+1 for a complaint.

That arrangement, with a transverse slot in the casting instead of a rail, cuts down the manufacturing cost. It does nothing for ease of use nor accuracy. If it's your first bandsaw, that's not really fair!

Axminster make after-market fences, that are quite well liked, and not expensive. If all else fails you might go that route (they have a rail that bolts onto the front edge of the table, so you need to be able to do some simple metalwork).

For what it's worth, even that isn't a total solution. My old SIP has a reasonable clamp for the fence at the front, but it flaps about at the back. I usually put blocks and a G-clamp behind it so that it can't move. Then it's pretty reasonable, but I didn't get rid of the drift until I fettled it thoroughly, from first principles. It took about a day to strip it, clean it, repair the worn bits (it's secondhand, although had been well looked after), and align it properly.

And, as Chas has pointed out, you do need to make sure the machine, any machine you buy in fact, is properly set up. There's a lot of help and advice available, and some Tommy rot on YouTube, even from some of the 'experts', so make sure you know how to do it systematically.

I think it's fair to say that the North American market generally gets better quality tools than we do in the UK. It's the fact we prefer low price 'bargains,' I fear. The point being that I've seen USA YouTube videos on machine setup saying, "All you have to do is..." Over there, it may be true - better machining, quality control and materials mean the machines are better as delivered. But they then go on to talk about adjustments my machines don't have, and assume quality they don't have either. Ours are invariably Chinese, and frankly, the quality is very variable.

We've got a couple of general recommendations round here for bandsaws, based on a lot of people's (bitter) experience of similar problems to those you're having. That'll be excellent quality blades from Tuff Saws, and Steve Maskery's DVDs on bandsaw setup, tuning and jigs. I'll readily confess that Steve is a mate of mine - that doesn't make his DVDs any less good though - he cuts through the bull***t like his bandsaw does wood!

The blades make a huge difference too. I haven't time now, but there's an optimised blade design for the various tasks a bandsaw can do - curve cutting, resawing (making boards from logs), and rip cutting. It also depends on the size of your saw and the power of the motor. The right blade properly set up transforms the saw, and they usually cost not much more than a couple of pints. Ian at Tuff Saws really knows his stuff - I'm one of many who wouldn't go anywhere else.

Whatever you do, I hope you get it fixed and get to enjoy it soon,

E.

 

[jigsaw]

Morning guys.

Thanks a lot for the info, I have emailed the ebay seller and asked if he could help me with it, have to see how it goes from there.

Appreciate the posts - Many thanks

 

[Baldhead]

Jigsaw

If it was listed as 'new' and the fence cannot be aligned properly then the saw is 'not fit for purpose', if you purchased it using 'buy it now' the Distance Selling Regs are enforceable, if you bought it 'auction style' the DSR are not enforceable.

Baldhead

 

[jigsaw]

Thanks mate, yes I bought it new for full price.

I have emailed the seller and asked if I can pay the extra and exchange this for the next model up as that has a guide for the fence, this model does not come with one theres no wonder why I have been struggling.

Fingers crossed an upgrade is possible.

 

[wizard]

For £124.00 all you will get is a heap of junk

 

[CHJ]

Whichever bandsaw you end up with TAKE NOTE of what I said and Eric. referred to.

Even a bandsaw with a perfect fence setup won't cut true to the fence line if the blade is poor or the blade tracking is not set correctly.

Not taking notice of this in the first instance will only cause you a lot of frustration and chasing problems that are the result of errors you may not have appreciated.

A bandsaw is a simple device, and the 'tuning' requirements to get it to work without frustration are relatively simple but are not obvious to a new user.

Have a search of the forum for bandsaw problem threads and most things will become clearer.

 

[Eric The Viking]

For £124.00 all you will get is a heap of junk

He's right, you know.

From that number subtract 25% for the cost of doing business on eBay (roughly), then 25% for shipping, and some more for the various channel profit margins, say 20%. Then there's packaging and the accessories, and the painting and the mains plug, say 5%. By my reckoning that leaves you with about 31 quid going into the actual, functional product. I noticed in the picture it had friction guides (thought it was odd).

Change your mind: use the distance selling regs to get a refund; save up for something better (secondhand bargains tend to start around 2-300 pounds).

Avoid eBay unless it's (a) secondhand and (b) you can go see it working before the end of the auction; try Gumtree, TradeIt (round here), Small ads in the papers, even wanted ads in the papers(!), Watch the ForSale section here. You might even ask on Freecycle (stranger things succeed!).

You're not required to buy rubbish (nor put up with it) just because it's your first bandsaw.

E.

 

[jigsaw]

Guys, can't thank you all enough for your help and advice with this post !

I have emailed the ebay seller whos been very nice and asked Charnwood to contact me regarding returning the item as it is not fit for purpose so I am still waiting at this moment for a call.

I will be sure to keep you updated.

Thanks again everybody

 

[Benchwayze]

Jigsaw,

http://www.charnwood.net/shop/product/c ... dsaw?cid=1

I think someone else might have pointed you to the above video. If not be my guest.

The fence seems to be adjustable via the two nuts on top of the fence, at the operator end, just like my Startrite. I think you need to set the tracking. Stacks of videos on the 'Tube' addressing that. Better still, I believe Steve Maskery has produced a DVD on Band-saws and their idiosyncrasies.

Eric....
My Startrite has 'friction' guides, fitted with 'cool-blox' material. Never have any problem with them. If the saw was not over 20 years old though, I would buy a set of 'wheel' bearings, which I saw somewhere!

HTH

 

[carlb40]

Jigsaw,

http://www.charnwood.net/shop/product/c ... dsaw?cid=1

I think someone else might have pointed you to the above video. If not be my guest.

The fence seems to be adjustable via the two nuts on top of the fence, at the operator end, just like my Startrite. I think you need to set the tracking. Stacks of videos on the 'Tube' addressing that. Better still, I believe Steve Maskery has produced a DVD on Band-saws and their idiosyncrasies.

Eric....
My Startrite has 'friction' guides, fitted with 'cool-blox' material. Never have any problem with them. If the saw was not over 20 years old though, I would buy a set of 'wheel' bearings, which I saw somewhere!

HTH

The wheel bearings are sold by axi as an upgrade to certain models, so i guess a quick call to them would get an answer as to whether they would fit, without needing major modification.

 

[Benchwayze]

Thanks Carl.

Yes that was where I saw the upgrade, and my saw could be fitted with these guides. But as I said, my 351 is 20 years old; maybe more, so I don't think it's worth the risk. With my luck, the moment I upgraded the guides, the saw would die a devilish death. [-o<

So, for now the Cool-Blox' are adequate.