buying new machinery

[devonwoody]

A moderator the other day was so kind to point out that Part P has been done to death on this forum

BUT

I posted a thread the other day on the subject because it was the first time I had heard of this regulation in my life or on a forum.

My subject I now want to raise is:-

When a retailer sells you a piece of machinery that requires wiring above the 13 amp standard is he going to remind you that you will need to inform the authorities etc or you must have a qualified person set up the equipment for you?

 

[trevtheturner]

Fair question, DW. Like you, I had no knowledge of this 'Part P', until I read about it on this Forum. I suspect the majority of people, unless in the trade or picking up on it from a Forum such as this, will remain ignorant of it - and life will carry on just as before.

I doubt that there will be any obligation on a retailer to inform you of the requirements of Regulations - he will no doubt only be interested in selling you the machine, and most probably won't want to say anything to put you off buying. I have already experienced this - although did the retailer even know about Part P, I wonder?

Cheers,

Trev.

 

[Mcluma]

Look I am a bit THICK :lol:

So can somebody explain PART P and why it is taboo to speak or talk about it :roll:

McLuma

 

[DaveL]

Look I am a bit THICK :lol:

So can somebody explain PART P and why it is taboo to speak or talk about it :roll:

McLuma

Take a look at this thread were it was done to death. :shock: :roll: :shock:

 

[trevtheturner]

Yep, three pages of discussion on a significant change in electrical Regs. which could affect many of us.

Six pages devoted to late or non-delivery of a magazine :shock: :roll: :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Cheers,

Trev.

 

[Bean]

Seems about right :wink: A nice balance


Bean

 

[Anonymous]

Yep, three pages of discussion on a significant change in electrical Regs. which could affect many of us.

Six pages devoted to late or non-delivery of a magazine :shock: :roll: :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Cheers,

Trev.

Three pages of political soapbox rants versus 6 pages of discussion :wink: I know which I would rather read :lol:

The moderation team have discussed this topic at some length and are not opposed to healthy and informative discussion of part P with respect to it's effect on us as end users of equipment or installations.

However, the argument about whether it is right or wrong has ended as it is now law and further political discussion as to the rights and wrongs of it will be moderated.

 

[Mcluma]

Ok, now I have made some time to go into this, I came enlighted back. 8)

and below are all the items that DO not need notification

[/list]

So a lot is still allowed :wink:

 

[devonwoody]

Thanks mcluma,

I,m feeling a bit sweeter now

 

[Adam]

Yep, three pages of discussion on a significant change in electrical Regs. which could affect many of us.

Six pages devoted to late or non-delivery of a magazine Cheers,Trev.

Yep. Thats us.

Going further though....for example, dado blades (something the majority of us can't fit anyway due to our saws get oodles of discussion. How bizarre is that?

In fact, some to think of it, just look at the number pf posts (and replies) to the number of projects posted ratio. We like talking it seems!

I'll err, go do something useful in the workshop

Adam

 

[Mcluma]

Your Welcome DevonWoody

Hope this now also answers your first question in the other thread.

Sorry That i didn't understood the seriousness of your first question in the other thread.

But i looks like your ok, as you are doing some wire extension and putting a socket in

So in short 99.9999999% of the people can put their work somewhere into the exceptions. (adding socker-outlets/lighting to existing circuits) :wink:

So our handyman can still do his job :wink:
:wink:
McLuma

 

[RogerS]

Sorry Mcluma...don't shoot the messenger but I think that you are missing out on a couple of key points.

I don't believe that what you are saying can be done in any of these areas.... kitchens, bathrooms, saunas (!!), and, IIRC, outbuildings aka sheds aka workshops.

http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2004/20043210.htm

Is where the chapter and verse is.

Roger

 

[devonwoody]

Thanks mcluma,

NEXT

I honestly think retailers have now got to go back to their suppliers and manufacturers and say;

Look our general public users of machines cannot now put in a new electric circuit for your 16 amp machine. This now needs manufacturers to design and supply equipment that runs at 13amps.

Would someone on this thread give me an estimate for putting in a circuit from my consumer unit in a bungalow to my workshop 80 feet away. The circuit to run into the loft, across same and then overhead to my workshop.

The cost could be more than some machines???

 

[Mcluma]

Sorry Rsinden, :shock:

You must have a different PART P then the official one :wink:

The one I look at from Electical safety, doesn't mention any thing about SHEDS, yes about kitchens and bathrooms and sauna's and paddling pools

BUT NO mentioning of sheds

Could it be their are more versions of PART P in circulation

McLuma
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_buildreg/documents/page/odpm_breg_029960.pdf

 

[RogerS]

Devonwoody..some off the cuff thoughts....you will either need armoured cable (which may be able to support itself over that distance but may not and so you'll need a catenary wire to support it). What current/load are you going to use in your workshop? You're probably looking at 4mm cable I suspect...you might be able to do a deal for cash at your local electrical wholesaler. Almost certainly you will come under Part P..so there's more cost there.

Or JFDI with a few mates assuming that you're not thinking of selling in the next year or so..as then the buyers surveyor would pick it up as a new installtion etc etc etc.

You could also try posting on the screwfix TALK forum or askthetrades. They will need to know current loading first.

Oh yes... have you a spare circuit in your consumer unit?

Cheers

Roger

 

[Mcluma]

He DevonWoody

Which machine does require that 16amp connection :?:

McLuma

 

[devonwoody]

Thanks rsinden,

Two men, two days work. = £250 to £500
Materials =£150


Total = £400 to £650 pounds.

The retailers are going to start crying soon.


Perhaps they can start producing table saws with battery power :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[StevieB]

DW,

Short answer is its going to be expensive whichever way you go. As you are coming from the house CU you will need something at the shed end to distribute the current and provide a safety cutout - you dont want to have to run down to the house to isolate the current to the shed. Best advice is to fit a small CU at the shed end with MCBs and an RCD cutout. You cannot run an armoured cable into the back of a socket :wink:

I have recently done this. I ran a 10mm armoured cable (underground not over) from a 40A MCB in my house CU, for approx 100ft down to the shed. This then goes into a 4 way CU in the shed (metal so I can connect the cable directly to it and earth the box through the armoured sheath in one go) and supplies 3 strip lights via a 6A MCB and my sockets via a 32A MCB. The shed CU has an RCD and DP isolator so I can isolate the whole lot from the shed end. The house CU is a split load box I fitted last year. Opinion is divided on whether the 40A MCB at the house end should be on the RCD side or non RCD side of the house CU. In the end I went for non RCD side. This setup cost me in the region of £400 for all the bits and pieces (including lights and sockets as it was a new installation). Thats without labour since I did it myself. Hope this gives you a guide :shock:

One point to note, if you are running armoured cable, consider future upgrades. Its damn heavy and inflexible too. My 8 sockets and 3 lights really only needed 6mm cable but on the off chance, and since I didnt want to dig a trench again :!: I laid 10mm and put in a 4 way CU for future expansion plans (SWMBO permitting :roll: ) Might pay to consider all your likely future requirements before you do it.

Cheers,

Steve.

 

[RogerS]

Hi Mcluma

This bit came from my link

" (2) The requirements of Part P of Schedule 1 apply to -

(a) any greenhouse;

(b) any small detached building falling within class VI in Schedule 2; and

(c) any extension of a building falling within class VII in Schedule 2,

which in any case receives its electricity from a source shared with or located inside a dwelling."

I don't have a link to what class VI and VII is but I guess it just goes to show how confusing part P is

Roger

 

[Les Mahon]

Opinion is divided on whether the 40A MCB at the house end should be on the RCD side or non RCD side of the house CU.

Steve you said you have strip lights in the workshop, The electrician I spoke to before wiring my house told me that all lighting circuits must be on the non RCD side of the CU if you use strip lights. Souns like you may know if this is right or not???

What you have done sound exactly as I plan to do shortly when the workshop is built, but i envisaged spliting the CU in the workshop as well for the strip lights??

Don't nobody bite - I live in Ireland, and there is NO part P over here! To boot I am quiet happy doing my own electrical work, and I have an electrician give it the once over as well. (hence he was the one who said strip lights could not go on RCD)

Les