Mark A
Established Member
Worcestershire sauce, candle-lit dinners, bath water and turning on the light at night to go to the toilet all cause cancer? :lol:
Burning pallets in a wood burner?
- Thread starter Mark A
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Richard T
Established Member
Ironically, The Daily Mail is quite good for lighting the woodburner. Not quite as good as your super soaraway Sun however.
I think this is probably due to the cheap, coarse woodpulp paper rather than any volatile gasses produced by the content but one never knows.
I think this is probably due to the cheap, coarse woodpulp paper rather than any volatile gasses produced by the content but one never knows.
heimlaga
Established Member
I find it strange that wood firing is causing that much debate in your country.
Up here we use a lot of firewood. Many houses in the countryside are heated entirely with wood. At home we are stuck with an old system and use wood for a little more than half outr heat and oil for the rest. In winter we may have down to -40 degrees celsius in extreme cases and -20 for weeks on end is just normal so we need quite a bit of heat.
All wood species we have are more or less good for fire wood. Birch, rowan, scots pine, alder, spruce, aspen anything that burns. Firewood is normaly dried for at least one full summer or preferably two. It starts to degrade after about 10 years.
A very common system is to cut the logs one metre long. The bigger logs are split and the smaller ones get one or two strips of bark removed. Then the wood is stacked in stacks as wide as the logs are long. The stacks are usually about as high as the owner is tall and often very long. The top is covered with plastic or pieces cut from old discarded lorry tarpaulins. With this system the airflow through the stack will not be interrupted.
In autumn the wood needed for the winter is crosscut in halves or thirds or quarters and the biggest logs split again to fit the kind of boiler or stove you have. This means that the short wood is always dry from the beginning.
Pallets wood and demolition wood and construction site offcuts are often burned in late spring and early autumn because it produces less heat per volume than proper fire wood. There is not enough heat in it for mid winter usage.
Pressuse treated wood is proven to produce a very toxic smoke which also will destroy the chimney and the stove in the long run. It should not be burned under any cirkumstances. Plastic should not be burned either because it creates a lot of soot.
Up here we use a lot of firewood. Many houses in the countryside are heated entirely with wood. At home we are stuck with an old system and use wood for a little more than half outr heat and oil for the rest. In winter we may have down to -40 degrees celsius in extreme cases and -20 for weeks on end is just normal so we need quite a bit of heat.
All wood species we have are more or less good for fire wood. Birch, rowan, scots pine, alder, spruce, aspen anything that burns. Firewood is normaly dried for at least one full summer or preferably two. It starts to degrade after about 10 years.
A very common system is to cut the logs one metre long. The bigger logs are split and the smaller ones get one or two strips of bark removed. Then the wood is stacked in stacks as wide as the logs are long. The stacks are usually about as high as the owner is tall and often very long. The top is covered with plastic or pieces cut from old discarded lorry tarpaulins. With this system the airflow through the stack will not be interrupted.
In autumn the wood needed for the winter is crosscut in halves or thirds or quarters and the biggest logs split again to fit the kind of boiler or stove you have. This means that the short wood is always dry from the beginning.
Pallets wood and demolition wood and construction site offcuts are often burned in late spring and early autumn because it produces less heat per volume than proper fire wood. There is not enough heat in it for mid winter usage.
Pressuse treated wood is proven to produce a very toxic smoke which also will destroy the chimney and the stove in the long run. It should not be burned under any cirkumstances. Plastic should not be burned either because it creates a lot of soot.
HarryPalmer
New member
Wood burners can be less efficient than multifuel burners, some burn the fuel twice, KSW multifuel boilers are an example. These will burn any wood, coal, pallets, pellets, coke, cardboard etc. without leaving tar and soot stuck to the inside of the flue because they burn very hot which eliminates the problem and is more environmentalyy friendly.
Jacob
Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
If in doubt it's better to burn a small fire hot rather than having a large heap smouldering away with the dampers closed.
Fan assisted batch burners are the most efficient in terms of heat output per unit of wood, and cleanest emissions, but they involve other costs.
Fan assisted batch burners are the most efficient in terms of heat output per unit of wood, and cleanest emissions, but they involve other costs.
stuartpaul
Established Member
heimlaga":tz3doobt said:
Find that hard to believe although you guys burn more wood than we do. Can you point towards the 'proven' bit?
I 'wood' ( =P~ ) have thought that as long as you don't burn it exclusively there wouldn't be an issue? I do burn treated wood (not masses) and will continue to do so.
I burn about 2 cords of wood each winter, and I avoid softwoods. I burn mainly ash, some oak, birch and maple. I get my chimney cleaned once a year and I have minimal creosote build-up.
Whatever you burn, it's good advice to get your chimney cleaned each year and I think you'll find that burning softwoods will require a deeper cleaning than hardwood burning.
Whatever you burn, it's good advice to get your chimney cleaned each year and I think you'll find that burning softwoods will require a deeper cleaning than hardwood burning.
Jacob said:
I sense another thread starting - the HETAS reg. installer has refused to fit it. It has no CE certification. #-o
Jacob
Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
Perhaps get another installer and/or phone Steve Dowling.phil.p":378gdaty said:
I put mine in myself.
Have just fitted a second Dowling stove - a "Sumo". Weather been to hot to use it yet except for trial burns but it seems very good. We have as much exposed steel pipe as possible as this gets very hot and you get more heat back especially if you do a fast burn.
Richard T":1gv5m117 said:
Scots pine I assume is basically european pine or similar enough. 90% of firewood is made from that in Finland I 'd wager. Basically all I burn too. By law chimneys should be swept regularly.
My man said I won't get any registered installer to do it - I can't get my wheelchair around the roof very easily so I can't do it and in any case having just moved house twice I'm fed up with people saying this, that and the other needs paperwork. It would undoubtedly invalidate our insurance as well. Since last year self certification is no longer adequate, the stove has to have its own CE certification. I've just emailed Steve Dowling. If it's not resolved I'll start another thread.
Jacob
Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
Sorry about that hope it works out.
I showed our BCO what we were installing and he didn't seem too bothered. Some of the rules have got so complicated and contradictory that they have become self defeating.
I showed our BCO what we were installing and he didn't seem too bothered. Some of the rules have got so complicated and contradictory that they have become self defeating.
beech1948
Established Member
philp,
CE certification is an interesting pile of bulls**t. The CE regulations permit two types of certifications a) Tested by a laboratory b) Self tested.
Yes in option b) the company/individual involved are able to declare that the item is CE compliant and attach a CE stamp. I think that is quite strange but hey..ho.
What that means to you is that if you carry out the following steps you may be able to self certify.
1) Find and read the voluminous CE regs from the EU.
2) identify the portion which applies to stoves used to heat buildings.....there will be many types here and choice of the correct type will be critical. Find the details, print it and start a file of info.
3) From the discovered docs list the details/standards to which the stove must comply. Again there will be several eg welding standards, paint types, flue draw rates. Don't worry about them just list them. You only need to know what standards apply. A chat with local Trading Standards will help as they should know or be able to point you at the exact legislation.
4) Go back to your "supplier" and ask them to WRITE to you confirming the various standards used to manufacture the stove. If unsuccessful then ask them to let you know who made it and call their tech dept and ask them to write to you. You may end up writing to them the letter you want as a reply so they can agree in response.
5) This response is critical as CE self certification is all about best endeavours and being able to show that you tracked it down through the file of records you have.
6) Assuming you get a complete set of answers, documented in your file, then you can attach a CE label yourself as these are to be done by a competent person. Who could be more competent than tracking down this rigmarole.
Thats it. CE seems to be very difficult with people expecting the costs to be very expensive. In reality if a supplier will write to you and say it was done to this EU standard then you need not test yourself you can rely on their testing.
Finally, if your supplier will not help then demand your money back as the device is unfit for purpose as it is illegal to sell stuff without a CE mark or its equivalent.
What I do know is that wooden toys made abroad are dealt with in this way. China seldom tests anything and just applies the CE mark.
Good luck.
CE certification is an interesting pile of bulls**t. The CE regulations permit two types of certifications a) Tested by a laboratory b) Self tested.
Yes in option b) the company/individual involved are able to declare that the item is CE compliant and attach a CE stamp. I think that is quite strange but hey..ho.
What that means to you is that if you carry out the following steps you may be able to self certify.
1) Find and read the voluminous CE regs from the EU.
2) identify the portion which applies to stoves used to heat buildings.....there will be many types here and choice of the correct type will be critical. Find the details, print it and start a file of info.
3) From the discovered docs list the details/standards to which the stove must comply. Again there will be several eg welding standards, paint types, flue draw rates. Don't worry about them just list them. You only need to know what standards apply. A chat with local Trading Standards will help as they should know or be able to point you at the exact legislation.
4) Go back to your "supplier" and ask them to WRITE to you confirming the various standards used to manufacture the stove. If unsuccessful then ask them to let you know who made it and call their tech dept and ask them to write to you. You may end up writing to them the letter you want as a reply so they can agree in response.
5) This response is critical as CE self certification is all about best endeavours and being able to show that you tracked it down through the file of records you have.
6) Assuming you get a complete set of answers, documented in your file, then you can attach a CE label yourself as these are to be done by a competent person. Who could be more competent than tracking down this rigmarole.
Thats it. CE seems to be very difficult with people expecting the costs to be very expensive. In reality if a supplier will write to you and say it was done to this EU standard then you need not test yourself you can rely on their testing.
Finally, if your supplier will not help then demand your money back as the device is unfit for purpose as it is illegal to sell stuff without a CE mark or its equivalent.
What I do know is that wooden toys made abroad are dealt with in this way. China seldom tests anything and just applies the CE mark.
Good luck.
The guy fitting it for me has contacted Dowling as well, so we'll see what happens. I've just paid £1200 for it so I don't feel inclined to go out of my way to prove anything. (Sorry, that's not a criticism of anything in your post 
).
).beech1948
Established Member
philp,
Thats OK I understand. Remember that things sold in the Uk need to have a CE mark or have its equivalent from a Uk or other standards agency.
good luck
Thats OK I understand. Remember that things sold in the Uk need to have a CE mark or have its equivalent from a Uk or other standards agency.
good luck
beech1948
Established Member
Just looked at Dowlings web site and the page about Certification and CE.
Certification
As a small craft based manufacturer we qualify as a ‘micro enterprise’ and as such, under EU Regulation (the Construction Products Regulation 2011, A 37/38), can certify our own products.
We conduct basic thermal testing of all our products in house, and have two of our stoves externally tested and CE marked (the Hybrid space heater, and the Sumo boiler). These tests were done in March 2009 at GASTEC in Cheltenham, and gave us a thorough insight into the various parameters of safety and efficiency that a stove must comply with in the UK and throughout Europe (results available on request).
To submit for external testing the wide range of models that we’ve developed over the years would be prohibitively expensive for us, especially with the high proportion of custom-building that we do. It would also really limit the radical design ethos that we’ve always tried to bring to our stoves.
We have various procedures in place for constancy of performance (CNC plasma cutting of parts, jigs and templates for particular models, and regular fabrication procedures), but being able to self-certify allows us the freedom to not only continually develop new design, but also to custom-build.
To comply with Building Regulations, each stove comes with a detailed CE Declaration of Performance, signed by either of the two business owners, Steve Dowling or Bill Menear, and we stand 100 per cent behind everything that goes out of our doors.
Given the above you should have found a CE Declaration of Performance document in the packaging so you are covered by Steve Dowling's testing and self certified CE certs. If not get him to issue a new one and proceed.
Certification
As a small craft based manufacturer we qualify as a ‘micro enterprise’ and as such, under EU Regulation (the Construction Products Regulation 2011, A 37/38), can certify our own products.
We conduct basic thermal testing of all our products in house, and have two of our stoves externally tested and CE marked (the Hybrid space heater, and the Sumo boiler). These tests were done in March 2009 at GASTEC in Cheltenham, and gave us a thorough insight into the various parameters of safety and efficiency that a stove must comply with in the UK and throughout Europe (results available on request).
To submit for external testing the wide range of models that we’ve developed over the years would be prohibitively expensive for us, especially with the high proportion of custom-building that we do. It would also really limit the radical design ethos that we’ve always tried to bring to our stoves.
We have various procedures in place for constancy of performance (CNC plasma cutting of parts, jigs and templates for particular models, and regular fabrication procedures), but being able to self-certify allows us the freedom to not only continually develop new design, but also to custom-build.
To comply with Building Regulations, each stove comes with a detailed CE Declaration of Performance, signed by either of the two business owners, Steve Dowling or Bill Menear, and we stand 100 per cent behind everything that goes out of our doors.
Given the above you should have found a CE Declaration of Performance document in the packaging so you are covered by Steve Dowling's testing and self certified CE certs. If not get him to issue a new one and proceed.
I have that (although I've not yet forwarded it), but the installer says it is not adequate - every stove must actually be marked.
beech1948
Established Member
philp,
I don't think each item has to be physically marked with a CE. I don't recall ever reading that in the legislation. It is at best optional as most manufacturers simply add a sticky label. Seems the installer needs a bit of education. I doubt he has ever read the legislation and I expect he is simply repeating what someone has told him. Maybe try another installer or 2.
I don't think each item has to be physically marked with a CE. I don't recall ever reading that in the legislation. It is at best optional as most manufacturers simply add a sticky label. Seems the installer needs a bit of education. I doubt he has ever read the legislation and I expect he is simply repeating what someone has told him. Maybe try another installer or 2.
Jacob
Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
We had a query with Dowlings about the design of the shield behind the stove which didn't comply to the letter with the rules, but were assured that Dowling's own tests were good enough and if necessary they'd speak to our BCO. They seem to have everything covered.
And they are good stoves - 10 years and zero maintenance so far (except when we broke the glass but that was our fault) as compared with replacement baffles , firebricks, fireproof string etc with a Morso Squirrel at £50 plus per year.
I doubt the need for an actual mark on the stove.
And they are good stoves - 10 years and zero maintenance so far (except when we broke the glass but that was our fault) as compared with replacement baffles , firebricks, fireproof string etc with a Morso Squirrel at £50 plus per year.
I doubt the need for an actual mark on the stove.
