Bummer!

UKworkshop.co.uk

Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Student

Established Member
Joined
14 Nov 2013
Messages
298
Reaction score
0
Location
Bristol
We have some large trees in the woodland at the back of ours and the neighbours’ gardens. A couple of Mondays ago, one of the 50 ft plus high oak trees came down taking the top 20 ft of a sequoia with it.

My immediate reaction, after seeing the damage, was that at least we would have some decent oak for future use although it might be a problem getting a Wood-Mizer type sawmill down into the garden as there is no vehicle access. However, we have been told that the oak, and its neighbours, is, in fact, a turkey oak not English oak. As such, it’s only good for burning!
 

Attachments

  • Tree 1.jpg
    Tree 1.jpg
    140 KB
  • Tree 2.jpg
    Tree 2.jpg
    247.8 KB
This is a regular sentiment on this forum, a local tree comes down and the expectation is a bonanza of dirt cheap and good quality timber.

I'm sceptical. The great majority of trees, especially those grown outside of managed woodland, generally aren't that suitable for furniture because they're likely to be pretty unstable in service, or they're too old and have rotten cores, or they're too knotty, or suffer from any of a thousand other shortcomings. And that's before the mammoth task of planking, extracting, and drying the wood.

If you're making fence posts I understand the attraction, but for quality furniture a day spent at a decent timber yard will give you far better quality and choice. Plus, for the quantities that a hobbyist or even a small professional maker consumes the cost of timber yard bought wood really isn't all that high. After all, a bedside table doesn't need much more than a cubic foot of timber, costing say £50 or £60. And for that a hobbyist can keep themselves busy for a good few months while they concentrate on producing something of really good quality with a dovetailed drawer with drawer slips, nicely tapered legs, excellent mortice and tenon work, and maybe even some fine inlay work or cockbeads. If you've only got a few hours a week to spare then surely that's a more sensible use of time rather than weeks of graft processing a few cubic metres of likely inferior quality timber?
 
Have heard referred to as wainscote oak so presume it is suitable for wainscoting?

Planked up several tonnes for a friend during the winter before a tree surgeon pointed out it was turkey and not english oak. Remains to be seen how it works out but had lovely medullary rays in it.
 
it's tree wood and it's free wood, what could possibly be a bad thing about that?
 
custard":y1svnf0o said:
This is a regular sentiment on this forum, a local tree comes down and the expectation is a bonanza of dirt cheap and good quality timber.

I'm sceptical. The great majority of trees, especially those grown outside of managed woodland, generally aren't that suitable for furniture because they're likely to be pretty unstable in service, or they're too old and have rotten cores, or they're too knotty, or suffer from any of a thousand other shortcomings. And that's before the mammoth task of planking, extracting, and drying the wood.

If you're making fence posts I understand the attraction, but for quality furniture a day spent at a decent timber yard will give you far better quality and choice. Plus, for the quantities that a hobbyist or even a small professional maker consumes the cost of timber yard bought wood really isn't all that high. After all, a bedside table doesn't need much more than a cubic foot of timber, costing say £50 or £60. And for that a hobbyist can keep themselves busy for a good few months while they concentrate on producing something of really good quality with a dovetailed drawer with drawer slips, nicely tapered legs, excellent mortice and tenon work, and maybe even some fine inlay work or cockbeads. If you've only got a few hours a week to spare then surely that's a more sensible use of time rather than weeks of graft processing a few cubic metres of likely inferior quality timber?


I have an Alaskan mill and have been milling trees for about 15 years now. On my own I can do up to about 36" dia and I make 8' long planks to fit in my Sauno kiln.
With my mate working with me we can plank up to about 50" wide which are very heavy but managable. When I think of all the trres we have done over the years there are only one or 2 that would have been accessible to a woodmizer, so that means they would have all been firewood or left to rot. We have milled oak, yew, walnut, ash, beech, sycamore, douglas fir, cherry and some other one-off specimens. 90% have all been milled within about 3 miles radius of the workshop so we didnt have a long journey hauling the timber home. In the 15 years there have only been 2 trees that have been rotten in the middle or shattered when falling over, which is not wasted anyway as we still get a good lot of firewood out of it.
All our trees are windblown and that means we just have to take them as they lie rather than fell them in a suitable direction to mill up. We both have quite a lot of money invested in our set up, but when that is compared to a kiln with 2.5 cubic metres of oak in it then its a quite good return. It helps that my mate also has a landrover and trailer for bringing out the wood to my van which saves me from getting stuck in the woods and we also have a variety of winches and other gear for moving logs into the best position for milling. Maintaing the saws and chains takes a lot of effort and dosh. A lot of people try it and decide its too much work and easier to buy timber which I agree with to some extent, but there is nothing better than being able to show the pictures of you milling up a tree to a potential customer and telling them exactly where the tree came down and when it came down and also that it was windblown and not cut down deliberately to make furniture.
 
Might be worth processing into turning blanks at least. I've turned some turkey oak and it came out lovely.
 
It might not make furniture, but that shelf 20 years down the road that all knurly and twisted will have a story to tell, B £ Q timber isn't the same thing.
 
I know nothing about turkey oak....... to me oak is a semi tropical tree that grows somewhere down south........

What I know is that I often salvage windfallen trees. I use a Massey-Ferguson 165 with a logging winch and a trailer. I bring the logs to the local sawmill and cut up the rest for firewood. It is not worth to bring the sawmill to the tree...... except maybe with some mammoth sized trees that don't grow in Finland.

If the trees are free or almost free I rekon I get a small profit. No mindblowing fortunes but enough to be worth the effort. Though this requires a certain skillset and some equipment.
 
I dont pay for my trees as it would cost the landowner to remove them. The branches are turned into lig slice coaster or other items. Any timber that isnt used for workshop items is logged up for firewood. We try to leave site as clear as possible. Often the root plate will end up sitting back down in the big hole which can be a bit scarey when it suddenly moves. My mste even lost an expensive jacket when he hung it up on one of the roots once! There was no way of recovering that
Leaving the site tidy and cleared up means that we get permission to go back on site for more windblown trees. Win win all round
 
acewoodturner":w6rqw54e said:
custard":w6rqw54e said:
This is a regular sentiment on this forum, a local tree comes down and the expectation is a bonanza of dirt cheap and good quality timber.

I'm sceptical. The great majority of trees, especially those grown outside of managed woodland, generally aren't that suitable for furniture because they're likely to be pretty unstable in service, or they're too old and have rotten cores, or they're too knotty, or suffer from any of a thousand other shortcomings. And that's before the mammoth task of planking, extracting, and drying the wood.

If you're making fence posts I understand the attraction, but for quality furniture a day spent at a decent timber yard will give you far better quality and choice. Plus, for the quantities that a hobbyist or even a small professional maker consumes the cost of timber yard bought wood really isn't all that high. After all, a bedside table doesn't need much more than a cubic foot of timber, costing say £50 or £60. And for that a hobbyist can keep themselves busy for a good few months while they concentrate on producing something of really good quality with a dovetailed drawer with drawer slips, nicely tapered legs, excellent mortice and tenon work, and maybe even some fine inlay work or cockbeads. If you've only got a few hours a week to spare then surely that's a more sensible use of time rather than weeks of graft processing a few cubic metres of likely inferior quality timber?


I have an Alaskan mill and have been milling trees for about 15 years now. On my own I can do up to about 36" dia and I make 8' long planks to fit in my Sauno kiln.
With my mate working with me we can plank up to about 50" wide which are very heavy but managable. When I think of all the trres we have done over the years there are only one or 2 that would have been accessible to a woodmizer, so that means they would have all been firewood or left to rot. We have milled oak, yew, walnut, ash, beech, sycamore, douglas fir, cherry and some other one-off specimens. 90% have all been milled within about 3 miles radius of the workshop so we didnt have a long journey hauling the timber home. In the 15 years there have only been 2 trees that have been rotten in the middle or shattered when falling over, which is not wasted anyway as we still get a good lot of firewood out of it.
All our trees are windblown and that means we just have to take them as they lie rather than fell them in a suitable direction to mill up. We both have quite a lot of money invested in our set up, but when that is compared to a kiln with 2.5 cubic metres of oak in it then its a quite good return. It helps that my mate also has a landrover and trailer for bringing out the wood to my van which saves me from getting stuck in the woods and we also have a variety of winches and other gear for moving logs into the best position for milling. Maintaing the saws and chains takes a lot of effort and dosh. A lot of people try it and decide its too much work and easier to buy timber which I agree with to some extent, but there is nothing better than being able to show the pictures of you milling up a tree to a potential customer and telling them exactly where the tree came down and when it came down and also that it was windblown and not cut down deliberately to make furniture.

Great that you've found a way of making it work. However by your own admission you've had to invest heavily in equipment, including a kiln, and are prepared to undertake heavy and sometimes risky work in order to access your timber. I'm glad you spelt out the reality of the task, because for most people this is a pipe dream.

The thing that continually puzzles me is that whenever the subject of a wind blown tree crops up it generally garners a lot of enthusiasm, however the people on this forum who have ever bought from a timber yard are probably in the minority. I've never been able to figure out why that is. Why would someone consider taking on the challenge and risk of processing a fallen tree, but wouldn't dream of visiting a timber yard and getting exactly the right quantity of exactly the right timber at exactly the moment that they need it?

I'm not knocking processing your own timber, rather I'm promoting the idea of buying timber in person at a timber yard.
 
There arent any decent timber yards close to me. Nearest yard that sells decent timber is in Glasgow. I have bought 65mm oak from Lathams in Motherwell. Told them the quantity required and a forklift truck brought it out with me having no choice over selection. I have never seen so many splits in wood before and after I complained they admitted that they knew it was rubbish. That was a 4 hour return trip to get the first lot and the same again to replace it (and they wanted to charge me for the second lot)
The best timber yard I was ever in was John Boddies who you will know are no longer with us. Perfect 65mm british oak but expensive. My last bill from them was about 2.5k which I only got back when I got paid for the job. This was about 16 weeks after I bought it. It makes sense for me to mill and dry it myself for jobs like this and it also increases my profit.
O agree that I have a fair amount of expensive kit for milling and drying, but for my purposes it suits me. I also enjoy the fresh air and exercise and meeting up with my mate for a 3 or 4 day milling job.
 
Rorschach":1hvtlc8g said:
Every wood has a use surely, and not just as firewood.
I'd say so. There are many "junk wood" or "only fit for firewood" species that are still perfectly reasonable for something, streets ahead of modern fast-growth pine for example.

Even wood with outright flaws can be useful, turners are fond of using woods that other woodworkers wouldn't look twice at: short lengths, cracked, spalted, fire damaged, grain too wild etc. etc.

I've just looked up turkey oak online and I don't see anything wrong with it visually, little different to some North American red oak and the oak I've seen a lot in Asian stuff. Given the chance of some free pieces I'd certainly be willing to give it a chance, if for nothing else it could be reserved for utilitarian stuff like tool handles or drawer pulls for the workshop.
 
When I work for customers I often buy timber from one or another of the local timberyards.
When I build stuff for myself I try to process my own timber for most of the job but timber processing is rather unpredictable so I often end up going to the nearest timberyard to buy a little to get the job finished or to get certain pieces that didn't come out of the logs on hand.
I always avoid buying timber from the home improvement supermarkets. Too expensive and usually bad quality and too little to choose from.

I isn't one or the other.......... to me processing timber and buying timber are just two parts of an entiety.
 
Back
Top