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sploo

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Several quite large companies advertise(d) 100% renewable, and on a windless night the amount of renewable electricity drops to a few percent. Where else does the electricity come from?
I just spoke to a colleague about this; and the answer is indeed that there will be times where there's definitely not enough renewably generated electricity on the grid to support all customers on "100% renewable" tariffs. However, it'll be offset by renewable power being generated at off peak times.

I.e. if you use X units of electricity per month on a renewable tariff then there should be X units going into the grid from renewable sources (over that month), but at any one particular instant it cannot be guaranteed that there's enough renewable power being generated to cover all the use.

So basically, it's either all fine and definitely renewable; or a complete fudge and a lie - depending on your point of view and personal biases.
 

julianf

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Kind of like a bank then...

I pay to generate 100kw of electricity via renewable sources, and i use 100kw of electricity.

At the times when my cash money is generating excess renewables, then those easily modulated sources, like gas, are scaled back as my green electrons are masquerading as black electrons, and finding their way into Phil's house.


Rather like, sometimes, at the bank, the cash i draw out of the cash machine might, just might, have been Russian money laundering, or people trafficking, or prostitution, drug money etc. Sometimes that might be all the 50s the bank even has, as my "clean" 50s were taken out by someone else the day before.

The above is an excellent argument as to why we should all just give up our socially acceptable jobs, and just become gangsters. I mean, what's the point - the cash machine might still serve you up dirty money if thats all the bank has in its vault that day.
 

sploo

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Yes... though it's surely better to try to increase the "clean" (and reduce the "dirty") over time - rather than giving up.
 

Terry - Somerset

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The idea that green energy can somehow be separated from that generated from carbon based fuels is a complete nonsense for the consumer - electricity is a homogenous product that comes down the same wire into the same appliance.

Encouraging green energy generation seems a reasonable proposition. It may be far better to regulate the generators than continue with the current supply charade. This could be done through subsidising green energy generation through tax on non-green energy generation.
 

whereistheceilidh

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it should be possible for state-run utilities to be well run ...

They never, ever were - that's why why they were privatised in the first place. They were run for the benefit of the people working in them not their customers.
Scottish water & Welsh water..... not privatised & seem to be doing ok in the comparison table. You seem to have a short & selective memory Phil....why were rail & steel et al taken into government ownership in the first place. Non privatised French & other European rail companies seem to be surviving well & able to buy into UK rail. Why does privatised rail need such a subsidy? ....& sorry to open the flood gates but how does privatised US healthcare compare to non privatised?
 

Jones

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Sit tight. The administration scheme is government run so your current rates and any credit you have are protected.

No other company is accepting customers, and even if they were it would be at a far higher rate.

It's frustrating as we're electricity-only customers of Bulb as they are 100% renewable, but they've been brought down by the rise in wholesale gas prices which have risen from 50p/therm 12 months ago to around £4.00/therm now.

As Bulb is wound down, all customers will be moved to other suppliers but we all will end up paying more.
Bulb was never 100% renewable. They sold any old electricity from the grid then bought renewable energy credits off renewable generators . If you buy fossil fuel generated electricity during peak hours then buy credits for the off peak hours when there's a surplus of renewable this is only 100% renewable for advertising purposes. Ecotricity is genuinely 100%renewable (and vegan) I think there's one other UK supplier who is as well but not sure who.
Sit tight. The administration scheme is government run so your current rates and any credit you have are protected.

No other company is accepting customers, and even if they were it would be at a far higher rate.

It's frustrating as we're electricity-only customers of Bulb as they are 100% renewable, but they've been brought down by the rise in wholesale gas prices which have risen from 50p/therm 12 months ago to around £4.00/therm now.

As Bulb is wound down, all customers will be moved to other suppliers but we all will end up paying more.
 

NickVanBeest

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We all know it's bullshit... only way to be 100% on green energy is to get off the grid, and live off solar or wind, but hey, we live in the "modern" world, where everything is f'ed up and capitalism is the aim of the game, so live with it, and stop this debate please, as we're never going to solve it anyway
 

NickVanBeest

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Sorry, but just want all to stop bickering... :cool:

The world as we know it is dung enough, no need to let that flow through to a forum like this...
 

Spectric

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but if we all made the effort it wouldn't be dung. ipso facto probably
By all you would have to mean globally because just the UK cannot really make a huge difference overall, we could be perfect with zero emisions and no impact on anything but it would make very little change to what is happening.
 

sploo

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By all you would have to mean globally because just the UK cannot really make a huge difference overall, we could be perfect with zero emisions and no impact on anything but it would make very little change to what is happening.
But it's better than doing nothing, surely? And if "we" aren't doing it then it's easy for "them" to point at us and not do anything either (because we aren't, so why bother).
 

Spectric

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Lets see if our bumbling Borris is going to lead by example, you are right that we can not expect others to do what we don't so let's see if the Cambo oil project near the Shetlands gets the green light or the coal mine in Cumbria because they will send out a very clear message to all other countries, ie what is good enough for you is also good enough for us!

I will say some action needs to become evident from around the world because at the moment we are a virus infested sinking ship and just carying on as normal is not really an option but don't listen to our health minister, humpty numpty or you may get the wrong impression.
 

Jacob

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Lets see if our bumbling Borris is going to lead by example, you are right that we can not expect others to do what we don't so let's see if the Cambo oil project near the Shetlands gets the green light or the coal mine in Cumbria because they will send out a very clear message to all other countries, ie what is good enough for you is also good enough for us!

I will say some action needs to become evident from around the world because at the moment we are a virus infested sinking ship and just carying on as normal is not really an option but don't listen to our health minister, humpty numpty or you may get the wrong impression.
It's not only about setting an example it's also about being ahead of the game. The more it is delayed the more difficult it will be to make the changes when they are forced upon us, as they will be.
 

Terry - Somerset

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It's not often I wholly agree with Jacob! The benefits of unilateral action in the face of climate change projections are:
  • we do make a difference - even if global impact is small, leadership is about leading
  • expertise and knowledge gained may be of commercial value
  • easier transition to low/zero carbon with technology and behaviours embedded
  • we can feel terribly virtuous and lecture the rest of the world
The downside - not much. A small bit of GDP (perhaps 2-4%) invested in a "green revolution" - money that would otherwise be spent or squandered (at least in part) on the trivial, and foolish.
 

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