Building regulations Part P

[Anonymous]

I guess many of you will be aware that from 1st January 2005 there will be some draconian measures introduced relating to electrical work carried out in your home. If the work is in the kitchen, bathroom or garden then you will have to pay a handsome sum of money (perhaps £200 or more) to a certified electrician in order that a testing certificate is produced.

So just changing or installing a simple light fitting might become rather expensive in a few weeks time!

I've put a web page together on the effects of Part P, others are welcome to comment as they see fit:

http://www.handymac.co.uk/PartP.asp

Andrew

 

[Chris Knight]

I think my next address may be somewhere abroad!

 

[Adam]

I guess many of you will be aware that from 1st January 2005 there will be some draconian measures introduced relating to electrical work carried out in your home. If the work is in the kitchen, bathroom or garden then you will have to pay a handsome sum of money (perhaps £200 or more) to a certified electrician in order that a testing certificate is produced.

So just changing or installing a simple light fitting might become rather expensive in a few weeks time!

I've put a web page together on the effects of Part P, others are welcome to comment as they see fit:

http://www.handymac.co.uk/PartP.asp

Andrew

Being an engineer (chartered) and a member of the Insitute of Electrical engineers, and qualified as an electronic engineer, I find this very gauling, as, basically, I am happy doing my own electrics, and my only option is to be signed off by my local authority.

Adam

 

[Vormulac]

I'm a qualified sparks too. This bites the big one!

I may be forced to electrocute whoever comes around to check...

 

[frank]

it reminds me of the time a friend of mine a builder got a sparks to do some work he worked for manweb ,he done the job got paid then my friend got manweb to pass the job and get it signed , manweb condemned the job and told him to get one of their blokes to do it .(salt in the wounds and all that) . i wont tell you what he done to the sparks .

 

[Anonymous]

I think my next address may be somewhere abroad!

Well as of yesterdays announcement by Blunkett about ID cards, anyone who moves home after ID cards are introduced and doesn't tell the authorities will face an automatic £1,000 fine.

There you are quietly driving your camper wagon full of worldly possessions onto the Dover cross-channel ferry with a one-way ticket, and old man Blunkett impounds the vehicle 'cos you forgot to send them an announcement about moving.

I think Orwell was 20 years too early with his story.

Andrew

 

[Anonymous]

OK I have an ONC in electrical/electronics and an electromechanical engineering degree as well as being a member of both the electrical and mechanical engineering institiutes, can I change my own light bulb?

 

[Vormulac]

Only if you submit the correct paperwork (in triplicate) to the correct local authority departments, pay the necessary fees associated with the administration of the request for local authority recognition of the work being undertaken and submit to: A) a local authority inspector checking the work at a time least suitable to yourself (to be chosen later by local authority) and B) a body cavity search to ensure you're not hiding any funds due to the authority pertaining to the service which they are providing you with.

V.

 

[Adam]

OK I have an ONC in electrical/electronics and an electromechanical engineering degree as well as being a member of both the electrical and mechanical engineering institiutes, can I change my own light bulb?

Nope, we are incompetent at wiring our own house. I am, however, deemed competent to design products which use mains, and indeed to wire up domestic, commercial and industrial products, but can't touch the wiring the other side of the plug.

How bizarre.

Adam

 

[Chris Knight]

Wait until the "T" regulations come in - governing plumbing matters pertaining to toilets. You will be aware of the regulations that nowadays prevent cisterns being larger than a set number of litres and the twin buttons on top of modeern loos for a half flush?

Unfortunately it appears that we are not competent to decide when to use which button with the result that too much water is still going to waste. As a consequence , you will not be allowed to flush the loo without a certificate of competence or alternatively employing a qualified loo flusher.

However, research has shown that the foregoing measures are likely to lead to the average loo user choking the loo with paper because it gets flushed infrequently since people are reluctant to employ the services of trained professionals and the measures required to unblock the loo in these circumstances lead to greater use of water than would have been the case with regular small flushes. It has also been determined that the average person uses more paper than necessary.

So, necessary corrective measures will include the appointment of public buttocks wipers who have been properly qualified and trained in the economic use of paper. Naturally after a few years of never wiping our own buttocks, we shall forget where it is and as the wise folk in power have known all along since we can't find our own buttocks, the state is fully justified in intervening in matters that - in our ignorance we may have thought private.

 

[ike]

Bloody nanny state! :evil: :evil: :evil:

I think I'll just keep it to myself and quietly carry on doing my own wiring and plumbing safely and neatly (how many so called plumbers/electricians bother to make neat work these days (present company excepted naturally)? - just slap it in anyold how and take the money :evil: ), and b*****ks to the men in suits. I don't care if it's not certified - the difference is I know what's safe to do and what isn't (e.g. I won't fiddle with gas), as I don't care to risk the lives of my loved ones. For those engineers among us, it's not exactly rocket science and if unsure about anything, there's lot's of sources to find the right info/help.

Iek... or it could be Ike

 

[Anonymous]

I think I'll just keep it to myself and quietly carry on doing my own wiring and plumbing safely and neatly

Good luck to you etc. But when you come to move house you will have to sign a form sent to you by the buyers solicitor confirming that no changes have been made to the electrical installation during your tenure, and if there have been you will need to supply the certificate.

Doing the job neatly etc is all well and good. But following some sort of incident involving the electrics a forensic examination (I know this sounds orwellian but don't discount this government) will reveal your fingerprints in places they shouldn't be. And that COULD result from someone having piddled around with the electrics AFTER you have sold the property on.

There's also the situation where they are currently changing the colour coding for wiring. Have you tried to buy red/black twin & earth recently? In an older property the new wiring colours are going to look out of place. In a newer property if you use an old cable supply you happen to have lying around that will also look out of place.

Fortunately those amongst us who have seen this coming have stocked up on the older cable colours and I've got a reel of 1mm and 2.5mm. I don't use a whole lot anyway so it will most likely last me a very long time. However, this is for my own private use 'cos I ain't going to do wiring outside the new regs in a professional capacity.

One thing I don't get with this new regulation. You can fit your own gas appliance without flouting the law and blow up the whole street taking a coachload of people to kingdom come, but you can't change a light fitting and electrocute yourself without risking prosecution.

I think the lunatics are well and truly running the asylum. Where's that Pink Floyd album.....

Andrew

 

[Vormulac]

I didn't think you could listen to Floyd anymore. Doesn't it give you rickets, or make the pound fluctuate in a non-European manner or something?

V. (through gritted teeth)

 

[ike]

But when you come to move house you will have to sign a form sent to you by the buyers solicitor confirming that no changes have been made to the electrical installation during your tenure

That's simple enough, I can sign one of those.

Have you tried to buy red/black twin & earth recently?

Yes, Focus sell it. Not that I was checking the colour code...I just buy twin and earth.

One thing I don't get with this new regulation. You can fit your own gas appliance without flouting the law

Wasn't that previously illegal (CORGI reg an all that)?.

Ike

 

[StevieB]

Interesting topic this, been casting an eye over the same subject on the screwfix forums for a while as well - some very irritated sparkies over there!

My question is, who is the onus on to prove when the work was carried out? Lets say I fiddle with my electrics in February 2005 and dont get it certified. When I sell the house in the future, and tick the 'I havent done any electrical work during my stay' box, even if the electrics do blow up after I have left how can it be proved it was done in Feb 2005 not December 2004 before part P came into force?

I agree the colour change to wiring is going to be an indicator, but this is to match the EU, not for part P. I have supplies of both, and red/black earth is still readily available - I bought a reel to add sockets to a conservaroty last week from B and Q.

If you want to be compliant with the law when selling your house, whats to stop people doing DIY stuff themselves rather than pay a spark, then just get the electrics tested/certified before you move so you have a certificate to satisfy the buyers solicitor? This is a suggested part of buying a house anyway, although I suspect its rarely taken up. Looking at it from the other side, would you not buy your dream house because the electrics did not have a part P certificate? If the answer is no, you would still buy it then surely part P becomes irrelevant from a moving on perspective?

Handymac, on your website you say that 5-6 possibly less deaths are due to mains faults, yet on here you mention forensic examinations and fingerprints. Are these two points of view compatible? This is not meant as an attack in any way, I just dont see the problem being as draconian as you suggest for the future - possibly because I am not in the trade as you are?

I guess we will have to wait and see how things pan out but for now at least I shall continue to do my own electrics and deal with the problem of certification if it arises when I come to sell. How many of the general public do you think will have heard of part P and know to ask the spark they hire whether he is compliant? I suspect not many!

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

This is not really that new - just an extension of what has been in place in industry for years

The bottom line for years has been that the last person to work on a dangerous electrical installation is responsible for it being dangerous whether they actually carried out the work or not. The reasoning behind this is that anybody who carries out maintenance or retro-fit work has to be qualified and so should recognise and make good any defective installation/equipment.
This was something I was only too aware of during my years of electrical and electronic design on industrial control systems, where I was often the guy commisioning and then signing off my technicians work :?

Ike, I would leave well alone.

Want any electrical work done? I checked and my ONC includes modules that qualify me as an electrician; and I know the 16th edition of the regs (not 17th edition though oops). Does it matter that I have never been employed as a sparky?? :wink: :lol:

Blimey I could stop this lecturing lark and make a packet fitting plugs :wink:

 

[ike]

Ike, I would leave well alone.

Now you tell me! I've been and done wiring (including several 3-phase workshop systems) for 30 odd years for myself and the college where I taught in Belize. I haven't zapped/set fire to anybody or anything so far <rushes off to find piece of unvarnished wood>.
:roll:
Ike

 

[ike]

Want any electrical work done? I checked and my ONC includes modules that qualify me as an electrician;

My apprenticeship had modules on wiring but it didn't qualify me to be an electrician. It did qualify me to safely undertake simple domestic wiring. Just because one doesn't have a bit of paper, it doesn't mean one is automatically, dangerously incompetent.

The bit of paper only shows that at a specific point in time, one was able to demonstrate sufficient knowledge of the craft. It doesn't prove that all electrical work will be 100 % safe, after all qualified electricians can and do get electrocuted.

My point is that someone with a technical/professional background, and a reasonable amount of commonsense can be perfectly capable of safe electrical work, at least for domestic wiring for oneself, not anybody else of course.

Ike

 

[Midnight]

Given the state of the wiring in this place, any new work is bound to make it safer... Repeated attempts to get it inspected for safety by the council led to a half blind clerk-of-works coming round without any diagnostics gear... I've heard of many shortcuts in my time... but zen-diagnostics...???

 

[woodshavings]

What constitutes a "competent person" in terms of this act? I could not find any definition on the gov website.
John