Bronze Cast Bullnose. Bit of progress, some advice required.

[Bm101]

I picked up a couple of bronze castings a while back. I did a bit on the bullnose then put it down for a while busy with real life. Lots of work on the house done, I decided to use my karma points to spend some time doing the shed up a bit. Racking and lights, a massive tidy up and a new 'metalworking bench' made out of my old table from my mums when I was a kid and all of a sudden I was cracking on with the little bullnose again. But now I was sat by a window with a *** on the go, pint of cider at hand and just a minute on the wireless. Top shout. Lovely.

Off we go then. Lots of pics. Be warned. There will be a test at the end.

What did the tiny dog say?
A little ruff probably covers it...

Still, on with trying to get a fair reference surface. Started with the sole.

Roughed out the top, the ears (ears!? horns? no idea). and the bed. The bed's fairly tricky it's a bit cramped and also, probably more pertinent, I'm a bit clueless.

By this point I was getting fancy and knocked up a bit of wood to hold the body to do the sides. I improved it a bit later with some dog hole type dowel improvised clamps. Actually it works really well. Turn the body over, move the dowell to a different hole. Simple stuff but effective. Yes, the Mark 1 bendy nail was a bit lazy, you got me there.

Some stubborn casting pitting and I was smashing it to bits with a *******. Grrrrr.

One of the things I've found is you have to prepare to leave off before it happens if you see what I mean. Now I'm a semi-professional plane maker(...) I know all about scratch patterns. Judging when to leave off and go up a grade on the files so you take just enough off but not too much with the next cut is a dark art. Not so vital at this stage but we're getting there.

You can see the pitting at the back, there's one on the exact same spot on the other side. Taking off a fair bit of metal either side just to get these two spots out I (briefly) considered drilling a hole and interference fitting some copper rod. At one point tbh, if I'd had some copper rod and a decent accurate pillar drill I'd have done it and called it a design feature.

Anyhoo.
I knew the curved bit above the bed was not square across it's face. It's marked out in red sharpie in an earlier photo. I hadn't realised how much it was out, a good 2 or 3 mm, a huge amount by any decent standards. Doesn't look too bad from here.

When getting on to the nervy stages of opening the mouth there was a big discrepancy. In a plane that's only really useful square that's not good. Still. Spotted and remedied.
I got a bit worried at this point how I was going to approach the mouth and not wreck the work I'd done on the bed. With silent thanks once more to Andy T and the promise of a pint bought at some point, I dug out the lil' Eclipse. :wink:

Loads more to do, the sides need sorting and I haven't even approached the infil but its going ok.

So, as promised. Test time! Woop.

Q1. I'm aiming for a narrow mouth. How vital that it's very narrow for a bullnose?

Q2. I'm wondering about brazing a very thin plate of o1 plate to the sole. Never brazed much but chicken before. Is it feasible, favourable , advisable or would an expert planemaker like me who just pretends to be an idiot be better off leaving the sole bronze?

Q3. Taking into account your answer to Q2, is there a definite reason for doing so?

Cheers guys, sorry for the long post, hope I didn't bore you to death. As always I am very glad and thankful of any expertise you can pass my way.

Cheers as always.
Chris.

 

[n0legs]

Go on my son !!!!
Tuned in, big bag of crisps and a glass in the hand :lol:
Ready when you are =D>

 

[AndyT]

You're a brave man!

I've never attempted what you are doing, but I do agree that a bronze plane looks better with a thin steel sole. It won't mark the wood, where bronze can.

I do recall a conversation with someone at Bristol Design where he said they used a pottery kiln to get enough heat into the castings. You definitely need clean surfaces and the right flux and solder. There was a thread on this recently - I'm pretty sure the recommendation was tinman's solder and Baker's fluid.

Alternatively, epoxy resin is perfectly ​strong enough. Apparently.

 

[marcros]

somebody on the forum did fix a steel sole to a bronze casting, and did a write up. They had issues with the solder, but I cannot remember who it was. let me do a search.

 

[marcros]

t'was the gasman yet-another-casting-infill-plane-t98718.html?hilit=solder%20sole

may or may not be useful. Looking forward to watching the progress of your project.

 

[Bm101]

Thanks guys.
Andy I had read somewhere that bronze can mark wood. I suppose a steel sole's also more durable though I don't suppose that's going to matter for a moment in my case. Hardly like it's going to get the use it would in the hands of a proper woodworker. Marking the wood would bother me but again I suppose the majority of its a bullnose planes is hidden anyway..... hmmmm.

Thanks Marcros I think it was remembering Gasmans thread that was making me dubious about attempting it. If he was having trouble I'd most likely be up a certain Creek without a paddle. Or a boat. And probably on fire surround by alligators.

Still. I do possess the dubious virtue of eternally overestimating my skill set and my little plane should be a a fair bit easier.... was reading up in Jim Kingshotte'so book yesterday.
Look how I've nearly convinced myself to try it in the space of one sentence lol. Fools rush in an' all that. But really that's why I like doing this. The challenge.
Bloomin' idiot.

I'd considered epoxy and some sort of peining of rivets etc Andy. Thanks.
Will have a think and a look at options for the 01.
Might be an idea to get a little practice in....
Lots to consider. Still need to sort an iron, considering buying an Illes preston replacement type tbh and fitting that to size. Bit of a cop out but a lot faster and easier.
Cheers fellas
Chris

 

[gasman]

Tis the gasman here. Yes you're right guys it was me trying to sweat the sole onto a large bronze casting and..... I'm sorry I have abandoned the solder sweating in favour of metal epoxy. I'll restart that thread sometime as I have finally made some progress. In the end I tried on 3 separate occasions to sweat it on - all seemed fine but the line of solder never got fine enough so that each time once it had cooled, it was able to be knocked off my not very much force i.e. a tap with a hammer. The epoxy is rock solid. A failure of sorts - but I've finally got my plane-making mojo back now that the epoxy has worked!
Cheers Mark

 

[Bm101]

Ha! Brilliant! I was really hoping you'd stick your head above the parapet Mark. Good to hear from you. I look forward to any progress with your plane when you get a spare moment. Love to see how you're getting on. Sure I'm not alone.
I get your point about the epoxy but I think it's moot tbh. If the epoxy works and works well, what's the worry? It's a good solution by definition because it works. What epoxy did you use?
In other news I ordered some 1x30x500 01 from https://www.groundflatstock.com/ same place i got the 4mm for the last plane iron and as cheap as I have found. Delivery is a sod though. Same price as the steel.
I also bought some mild steel rod and some brass rod in varying sizes. Cos you never know. :wink:
Good to see you again. get some pics up fella.
Oh and a wrongly listed Moore and Wright parallel clamp dropped through the letterbox today. Total. 1 pound and twenty pence. Bosh.

 

[n0legs]

A quick question for the knowledgeable,,,,
Is O1 the steel of choice for a sole or are others used?

 

[Bm101]

Good call.
Think I read it in Kingshotte's book fella so I just got that. That's not to say it's the best option mind. I'd wondered the same thing too tbh. Bit late in my case. It's already here. Interesting to know what people think.
Mine's only 1mm thick so I doubt it makes a lot of difference but on thicker sole's it might?

Quick question. Should I harden and temper it? If I size it most of the way, possibly drill it if I end up riveting it, then harden and fit and file flush. That's the current idea at least. Not sure tempering is a good idea. 1mm stuck onto a lump of brone, is that not going offset any fragility?

Does it need it?

Cheers

 

[AndyT]

I'm pretty sure hardening and tempering the sole would be overkill.
If it introduced any distortion, you'd need a surface grinder, rather than "just" files, scrapers and abrasives.

Have a look over Richard T's builds - I don't think he did any hardening of the sole.

And how can I put this politely? Will the finished plane be worked hard, day after day? If I made it, it would only be used on a full moon with the planets all aligned, the rest of the time it would be an object for lesser makers to admire respectfully. :wink:

So it would take an awfully long time to wear it out.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Could you use a piece of steel from a throwaway saw?

 

[Bm101]

Wink's as good as a nod to a blind man Mr T. Great news.
And no need to be polite. I share the exact same feelings about its final use. Bit like making your own car when you've only just managed to pass the cycling proficiency test as a 7 year old let's face it. The irony is not lost on me. :wink: It's also a practice run for the smoother which I hope to use a little more. If I could just win the lottery....

 

[Bm101]

Good idea Phil. I wish I'd thought of that tbh. :|

 

[n0legs]

Could you use a piece of steel from a throwaway saw?

Wouldn't that be a bit thin?

Is there an optimum thickness for these things?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

How far do you think you'd have to push a little bullnose to wear through a piece of steel the thickness of a saw?

 

[essexalan]

My LN #4 bronze smoother did mark wood initially after a few days laying unused but it seems to form a surface patina after a while and no further problems. Just don't clean it.

 

[n0legs]

How far do you think you'd have to push a little bullnose to wear through a piece of steel the thickness of a saw?

Okay okay, I was just asking :lol:
Just interested that's all :wink:

 

[Bm101]

Could you use a piece of steel from a throwaway saw?

Wouldn't that be a bit thin?

Is there an optimum thickness for these things?

I got 1 mil steel for this one mate because you have to obviously extend the bed angle onto the steel sole at the mouth. At about 20 summat degrees that extends a long way forward, so the thicker the steel, the further forward the mouth is pushed and the thinner the front wall of the nose has to be. Trying to keep some balance and grace to the to the lines of the plane and this thickness steel will take it as forward as I dare hopefully without losing too much from the front. That's the general idea anyway. The Goldilocks effect. Not too much, not too little, just right.

I would guess each plane made has an optimum sole thickness that would depend on various factors according to what you want from the plane in terms of weight or visual balance maybe. Subjective stuff.

 

[Bm101]

My LN #4 bronze smoother did mark wood initially after a few days laying unused but it seems to form a surface patina after a while and no further problems. Just don't clean it.

Thanks Alan, good to know.