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Broken Plane, Big Deal?

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Osvaldd

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What do you fellas think, still usable? Just had a wee accident, cast iron + concrete floor = disaster.
This was my prised possession, 1930s Record No.5 1/2 with the narrower 2-1/4" cutter, quite rare.
I dont think it would be worth trying to fix it though.
 

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AndyT

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A pity but no big deal. I'd just file the broken edge smooth and carry on.
 

Vann

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As a collectible, it's ruined. No repair will restore it's value (which probably isn't that high anyway). It's a pity, as those Record type 1 planes are rare-ish and very nice. Hang on to it as you never know when you might stumble upon an incomplete one with a good base.

As a user it'll be fine if there are no cracks from the mouth to the new break. Here are my "go to" planes.
Go to planes.jpg

The far one, a post 1950s No.05, has a braze repair up the side. The middle one, a "warfinish" type 2 No.04ss, has the far side broken off like yours. The near one is a modern Clifton No.3 in good nick. All preform well in their rolls. I use the Clifton for fine finishing, but the 04 is so nice I think it could be tuned to perform equally well.

I have those interlocking rubber squares on the floor of my work area. Nice underfoot as well.

Cheers, Vann.
 

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richarddownunder

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Shame about the plane. I have some old carpet in front of my bench. It has saved a tool or a project on more than one occasion - most recently when I knocked an almost complete guitar neck off the bench. Interlocking rubbery squares sound like the next step up. Must get some.

Cheers
Richard
 

Vann

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richarddownunder":3tsljfdq said:
...Interlocking rubbery squares sound like the next step up. Must get some.
Hi Richard. I got mine from Mitre10 a few years ago. $NZ20 (IIRC) for four squares - 590mm x 590mm each square. I think Bunnings now stock a better range (damned Aussies :wink:).

I don't know where nor how much in the UK - but I'll bet they all come out of the same factory in China.

I first saw them in the background of a photo posted by Alf (she had some pink ones :roll: )

Cheers, Vann.
 

Brtone

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Bad luck, have it brazed by someone good, therwise it’s totally worthless and it will flex in use.
 

Vann

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Brtone":nawc0krr said:
Bad luck, have it brazed by someone good...
Being a bottom feeder, I've bought several repaired planes (cheap :oops: ). The No.05 above, and a Marples M7 are good planes. Others have poorly aligned repairs and are useless (good for parts though - at the right price).

I'd be reluctant to have that brazed. The heat, and tensions caused as the plane cools down, might well warp it out of shape. Maybe epoxy?

Cheers, Vann.
 

Osvaldd

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Doesn’t appear to have any other damage so I think I'll just glue it in place. Was wondering is JB Weld worth it or any plain epoxy would do? Any other recommendations?
 

Vann

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I have no experience with JB Weld, so can't advise on it's suitability. Ordinary epoxy should work well.
Cheers, Vann.
 

ED65

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Shame about the plane but glad the break wasn't more severe Osvaldd.

Osvaldd":206j78x0 said:
Was wondering is JB Weld worth it or any plain epoxy would do? Any other recommendations?
Hard to say if JB Weld is really worth it for this application. I haven't had great experiences with it, something occasionally reported by users when overall people are over the moon about what it can do. Can't speak for others but I'm certain in my case it's not anything I'm doing wrong as I'm well versed with epoxies (used to use them nearly daily for over a decade) it's definitely the JB Weld itself that's the issue. So this seems to indicate it can vary.

If you want to try simply epoxying the pieces back in place as-is, without veeing out the cracks, I think a standard epoxy would be a surer bet. Choose one with a setting time of at least 30 minutes as they're definitely stronger, but you must ensure the pieces don't move in the slightest during the epoxy curing period (some hours, regardless of setting time).

In addition to this I would reinforce with an epoxied-on plate of metal (mild steel?) bridging that area, either at the time (probably ideal as it'll help with alignment) or after the main fix has cured. I think this is one of the only ways you can be sure the area is reinforced with sufficient strength.

One thing to mention as well, you've probably handled the pieces or the crack in the body itself at this stage and regardless of what you decide to go with you must thoroughly degrease the joining surfaces to ensure a good bond. Acetone is the best for this and you can get it in Poundland if you have none in the house.
 

ED65

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Brtone":295ikofh said:
Bad luck, have it brazed by someone good, therwise it’s totally worthless and it will flex in use.
Brazing is a bit of a hard sell as it'll cost more than the plane is worth, in any market, unless it's done at 'mates rates'. And there isn't a guaranteed outcome.

An epoxied repair does come with a guaranteed outcome. But saying that, the epoxy could still come to a sizeable portion of the plane's market value.

As for the flexing thing, the plane already flexed in use. Whether the new amount of flexing would be an issue will come down to how the plane is used. Plenty of vintage planes with a half-moon missing from a cheek that seem to work just fine for their owners, including longer ones than a 5 1/2.
 

custard

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I'd salvage the frog, iron, handles etc, chuck the rest in the bin, and get a replacement.

It's not viable to repair (it would cost more than the replacement price), and without a repair it'll flex too much for me to trust it on precise work like edge jointing.
 

Osvaldd

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@custard:
The thing is this particular plane is the narrow version of the No5 1/2, they only manufactured this type for a few years before redesigning it in the 40s to be the same width as the no4 1/2, no6,7 and 8. I didn’t know this until I tried to swap the blade from the no 4 1/2 and it would not fit. Finding a replacement sole would be a challenge.
 

Sheffield Tony

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I've got the stay set version of the 5 1/2 with the narrower 2 1/4" iron. £15 from ebay ! I'm not selling ...
 

Vann

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From a post I wrote in February, 2013:
Vann":1kyilrke said:
I bid for this Record 05½ss last November. The seller said the blade was 57mm (=2¼“). It cost me $22 NZD (~£11). It has a crack down one side, and a hang hole drilled in front of the knob, but it’s the “stay-set” version. I bought it not as a user, but out of curiosity (I figured that crack down the side would grow if I use it).
05h_5s2.jpg
05h_5s1.jpg


What difference does ⅛” make? Not much, surely? Then again woodies often came in 2”, 2⅛” and 2¼“ widths.

So surely they’ve made it with a standard 2⅜” frog with a bit pared off each side? Nope – the distance between frog screws is ⅛” less than on a 2⅜” Record plane. So these things are real orphans !

I thought that maybe, if I grow to like it, I could send the body to Jim Davey in Aussie to have the crack repaired, the hole welded up, and the whole thing surface ground. That would probably set me back more than the cost of a new Cliffie #-o .

Then in December, while visiting my son-in-law’s workplace, there was this Record 05½, sitting forlorn in the workshop. No cap-iron, 2¼“ frog, and a Stanley (UK) 2⅜” iron jammed in the mouth. I could take it away (no damn good as it was) if I sent them a working No.4 or No.5 to replace it (I must get onto that).
05h_2a.jpg


One day I’ll make one good one out of the two.
05h_1&2f.jpg
05h_1&2g.jpg
...
what-to-do-with-my-5-1-2-t68284-15.html?hilit=Record

Since then I picked up a third narrow Record 05½, and a third 2¼“ iron (came in a 2⅜” Stanley :roll: ).

Rec5_5.jpg

The moral of the story is: don't jump too soon - you never know what will show up next month, or next year.

Cheers, Vann.
 

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Dangermouse 2nd

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Its broken, thats life, stop faffing about, in the bin. Get another user Record. If your not a collector replace it with a standard Record.....You want a plane that planes wood, so why keep on about how rare it is, now its broken its worthless to a collector and will flex enough to make it difficult to use on any decent work.
Sorry if thats a bit too blunt, but thats just me....
 

Vann

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Dangermouse 2nd":2dzn3xbp said:
...Sorry if thats a bit too blunt...
If it is, a quick 25 degree primary bevel on the grinder, followed by a hone on 1200grit and 8000grit stones at 30 degrees, and Bob's your uncle...

:mrgreen:

Cheers, Vann.
 

lurker

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I am a bit perplexed about the concept of cast iron flexing.
I don't profess to be an expert on such matters, but can't see it myself on a big lump like a 5 with a little bit knocked out of it.

Certainly I would not bin it, as sooner or later it's a donor.
 

Dangermouse 2nd

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Vann":3fy02614 said:
Dangermouse 2nd":3fy02614 said:
...Sorry if thats a bit too blunt...
If it is, a quick 25 degree primary bevel on the grinder, followed by a hone on 1200grit and 8000grit stones at 30 degrees, and Bob's your uncle...

:mrgreen:

Cheers, Vann.
I do not and never have had an uncle called Bob......... :D :D 8) 8)
 
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