Quantcast
  • We invite you to join UKWorkshop.
    Members can turn off viewing Ads!

Bringing goods from the EU

UKworkshop.co.uk

Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:

Status
Not open for further replies.

MarkDennehy

Established Member
Joined
29 Mar 2016
Messages
898
Reaction score
96
Location
Stepaside
We don't negotiate with terrorists.
I'm not sure that statement really sits well with reported news in the UK press:

Loyalists have held talks with the Northern Ireland Office (NIO) about the Irish Sea border and any threat it may represent to the Union.
...
The LCC is an umbrella organisation representing loyalist groups including the UVF, UDA and Red Hand Commando,
That was this week just gone.

This is earlier, from when the DUP were backing Theresa May (which was not the most stabilising of political arrangements in NI, I think it's fair to say):
THE DUP has defended its leader's decision to meet loyalist paramilitaries to discuss the implications of a mooted Brexit deal that could see a so-called border in the Irish Sea.

It is somewhat of a long-running pattern that predates recent years though.
Freedom of movement (as I see it anyway) is the freedom to travel anywhere within the EU for as long as you like, and work there/own property etc. You basically enjoy the rights of any citizen living in that country.
Not fully. You'd have no right to vote, for a start.
Visa free travel is the ability to travel to any country without applying for a visa and being allowed to stay for example 3 months. Depending on the agreement you may be allowed to work etc for some/all of that period. You have no rights to state healthcare, benefits etc. As I understand it we will have visa free travel within the EU very much like we do with the USA.
That's not accurate.

Ireland might be a special case because there's a preexisting Common Travel Area agreement in place, but there are some questions over that because the sheer scale of the changes brexit wrought is so extensive that nobody is completely sure it's not been undermined; removing the foundation of almost forty years of law overnight has too many side effects to be really sure about much.

But within the wider EU, no, there is no CTA and while you don't require a visa today - part of the transition agreement means there's some leeway - you have to have a valid passport and apply for entry with that and what consitutes a valid passport is tighter than you're used to:
 

Terry - Somerset

Established Member
Joined
22 Dec 2012
Messages
681
Reaction score
194
Location
Taunton
The UK signed up to the EU following a referendum with an overwhelming majority (66:34). Since then our elected representative signed up to further major changes - in particular Maastricht (1992) and Lisbon (2007).

The 2016 referendum which ultimately took us out of the EU was a major mistake. But we need to make it work as well as we can. There may be pressure to rejoin in the years to come - but it will not happen in this decade!

There are clearly some teething problems - no surprise. The issues were not properly resolved in good time - a few days notice is a complete indictment of the negotiating tactics and process.

However both importers and exporters have failed to understand and complete documentation properly. There was always going to be additional paperwork and customes declatations. Complications associated with VAT were all but inevitable.

To use the first three weeks outside of the EU as the basis for forming or reinforcing opinions is daft. Exit will clearly change supply chains, possibly prices and suppliers - but it would make more sense to assess how it is working in six months when at least some of the anomalies have been resolved.
 

Jacob

Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
Joined
7 Jul 2010
Messages
17,114
Reaction score
422
Location
Derbyshire
...To use the first three weeks outside of the EU as the basis for forming or reinforcing opinions is daft. Exit will clearly change supply chains, possibly prices and suppliers - but it would make more sense to assess how it is working in six months when at least some of the anomalies have been resolved.
Just in time delivery means it matters now, not in 6 months.
It seems many small businesses will be closed in 6 months time.
We can, and we need to have an opinion of how things are going currently.
We can also compare this with what we were promised during the last four years.
We can change our minds if things turn out differently 6 months hence.
If things aren't working well in 6 months we will be able to point the finger of blame at all those who voted to leave, and say it's all your fault!
 

RobinBHM

Established Member
Joined
17 Sep 2011
Messages
4,629
Reaction score
396
Location
Wst Sussex
The UK signed up to the EU following a referendum with an overwhelming majority (66:34). Since then our elected representative signed up to further major changes - in particular Maastricht (1992) and Lisbon (2007).

The 2016 referendum which ultimately took us out of the EU was a major mistake. But we need to make it work as well as we can. There may be pressure to rejoin in the years to come - but it will not happen in this decade!

There are clearly some teething problems - no surprise. The issues were not properly resolved in good time - a few days notice is a complete indictment of the negotiating tactics and process.

However both importers and exporters have failed to understand and complete documentation properly. There was always going to be additional paperwork and customes declatations. Complications associated with VAT were all but inevitable.

To use the first three weeks outside of the EU as the basis for forming or reinforcing opinions is daft. Exit will clearly change supply chains, possibly prices and suppliers - but it would make more sense to assess how it is working in six months when at least some of the anomalies have been resolved.
Great post.

temporary: issues will get resolved as businesses get trained and new administration systems get refined

permanent: additional permanent cost increases and technical delays will force business change, either finding new sales, new supply chains, bankruptcy, moving to be inside SM

longer term: who knows but commerce will probably trump ideology and UK will most likely build a closer relationship with the EU
 
Last edited:

Jake

Established Member
Joined
5 Apr 2004
Messages
5,160
Reaction score
100
Location
London
There's a serious risk the UK will never build a closer relationship with the EU, because one of the prices of Brexit will be its existence.
 

Jacob

Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
Joined
7 Jul 2010
Messages
17,114
Reaction score
422
Location
Derbyshire
....

longer term: who knows
Who knows? You mean you have no particular expectations of any benefits?
......but commerce will probably trump ideology and UK will most likely build a closer relationship with the EU
Probably correct - and the question will be raised as to why we put ourselves through the mill (for however long it takes and how much it costs) if we are going to end up in much the same place, but with a diminished reputation, less power, less influence than we ever had
 
Last edited:

sploo

Somewhat extinguished member
Joined
8 Nov 2014
Messages
2,992
Reaction score
372
Location
West Yorkshire
...moving to be inside SM
Potentially sacking staff in the UK, and moving your business operations to an EU nation doesn't exactly sound like a big win for the UK.

I suppose Rees-Mogg would tell parliament they'll be happy because they'll be British Businesses! Just without the staff, or the location. But I guess they at least wouldn't be fish.
 

MarkDennehy

Established Member
Joined
29 Mar 2016
Messages
898
Reaction score
96
Location
Stepaside
There are clearly some teething problems - no surprise.
Quite a lot of people in the logistics industry - the people actually driving the trucks, so to speak - have been saying for quite some time that these are not teething problems, but structural ones. That seems worrying.

Also, as bad as things are at the moment, remember that for NI at least, they are still in the three month grace period before full certification checks will be applied on goods coming from GB to NI. So if these are teething problems, either they get resolved rather rapidly, or the UK will watch one of its union suffer food shortages.

I mean, this is the Irish guy telling you this, so the irony meter just punched it's needle out the far side of the case...
 

Noel

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
7 Aug 2003
Messages
6,520
Reaction score
243
You didn't recall it because it there wasn't one.
I was reading the other day there was a ref in the mid 70s about continued membership of the EEC. Think there’s only been the two EEC/EU.
 

Terry - Somerset

Established Member
Joined
22 Dec 2012
Messages
681
Reaction score
194
Location
Taunton
Putting effort and emotion into complaining about what has happened is pointless. The battle has been fought (not very well by Remainers) and lost. I don't like it either but get used to it.

There is close to zero chance of re-entry in the next decade. It is likely the Tories will be in control for the next four years.

A new goverment in 1924, if they pursue a policy of re-entry, will need a few years to win a referendum, agree with EU and implement. We are unlikely to get as good a deal as we had before exit.

In 10+ years when we look to see whether it was all worth it, both sides will selectively point to data that proves their point.

As the government have failed to agree success criteria - what does it mean in terms of growth, employment, inflation etc - we will probably never know whether it was a success. In business this would be poor project management.

Nigel Farage formed UKIP in 1992. It took 20+ years to put Brexit on the agenda leading to the referendum. He is a very effective, persuasive communicator (like him or not). Unless utterly overwhelming it will be another 20 years before there is a real prospect of change.
 

sploo

Somewhat extinguished member
Joined
8 Nov 2014
Messages
2,992
Reaction score
372
Location
West Yorkshire
Unless utterly overwhelming it will be another 20 years before there is a real prospect of change.
By which time we'll have robbed a generation the freedoms and opportunities we had, all so we could reduce our own rights and rot some squid in a lorry.

Well, not Farage's kids obviously; he can get them German passports.
 

Sandb1g

Member
Joined
21 Jan 2021
Messages
16
Reaction score
7
Location
Consett
Putting effort and emotion into complaining about what has happened is pointless. The battle has been fought (not very well by Remainers) and lost. I don't like it either but get used to it.

There is close to zero chance of re-entry in the next decade. It is likely the Tories will be in control for the next four years.

A new goverment in 1924, if they pursue a policy of re-entry, will need a few years to win a referendum, agree with EU and implement. We are unlikely to get as good a deal as we had before exit.

In 10+ years when we look to see whether it was all worth it, both sides will selectively point to data that proves their point.

As the government have failed to agree success criteria - what does it mean in terms of growth, employment, inflation etc - we will probably never know whether it was a success. In business this would be poor project management.

Nigel Farage formed UKIP in 1992. It took 20+ years to put Brexit on the agenda leading to the referendum. He is a very effective, persuasive communicator (like him or not). Unless utterly overwhelming it will be another 20 years before there is a real prospect of change.
I can see Scotland going it alone and joining the EU
 

Rorschach

Living on borrowed time
Joined
6 Jan 2016
Messages
4,741
Reaction score
509
Location
Devon
I can see Scotland going it alone and joining the EU
Unlikely the EU would let them join, at least not until they set up their own independent bank and sorted out their debts which could take years.

I don't have a problem with Scottish independence, I don't think it would be good for the people of Scotland though and to be honest it isn't in the interest of the SNP as they would lose their appeal very quickly as rulers of an independent Scotland, their track record on the power they do wield is shameful and they only get away with it because they can blame failings on Westminster.
 

sploo

Somewhat extinguished member
Joined
8 Nov 2014
Messages
2,992
Reaction score
372
Location
West Yorkshire
I don't have a problem with Scottish independence, I don't think it would be good for the people of Scotland though and to be honest it isn't in the interest of the SNP as they would lose their appeal very quickly as rulers of an independent Scotland, their track record on the power they do wield is shameful and they only get away with it because they can blame failings on Westminster.
Oh the irony of replacing Scotland with the UK, the SNP with the Tory Brexiteers, and Westminster with the EU.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top