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sploo

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Well it is and I also respect your rights.
That's fine - it's just there's not much meat to the argument (not that I'm trying to have an argument - just trying to get the point across that the two negative impacts on business have different causes, likely different length of impact, and different reasons for impact).

It's not hypocrisy to want to try to reduce virus transmission by shutting down (hopefully temporarily), and at the same time being annoyed at the extra load on a business due to Brexit (regardless of whether that individual voted for or against Brexit... and none of us voted for Covid).
 

Rorschach

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I might be placing my order earlier than expected so will be interesting to see how things go. Anybody here yet dealt with a 4 figure order?
 

sploo

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It is hypocracy, but I respect your rights.
How?

A business owner could say "I am temporarily closing my business to reduce the risk of Covid transmission to staff/customers, but I'm also annoyed about the extra load on my business due to the Brexit deal" (and that would even be fine if that owner had actually voted for Brexit).

Similarly, a member of the public could be in favour of shutting down businesses temporarily (to reduce Covid transmission; not because they wish the business harm), and also be upset that those businesses would be hit by Brexit related red tape when they're running again.

Not an ounce of hypocrisy in those positions. I rather suspect it might be your political leanings coming in there Bob.
 

Terry - Somerset

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The referendum was lost through complacency and an inability to communicate with voters. Brexiteers created an emotional playing field. Remainers believed rational argument would win the day. They were wrong.

The country then spent 4 years during which Remainers failed to put forward sufficiently compelling arguments to change the outcome.

In a final "roll of the dice" Remainers were trounced in a general election. They are as much the reason for the outcome as Brexiteers.

I was a remainer, and still think Brexit utterly foolish. But it has happened. Raking over old and obsolete arguments is a complete waste of energy. Get used to it.

A losing football team may analyse the last match to understand why they lost - but they train to win the next one! Remainers should do the same - not continually re-run old lost arguments.
 

Jacob

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...... Remainers should do the same - not continually re-run old lost arguments.
We aren't though. We are looking at the scenario as it now is.
The game never stops - nothing is fixed at it's a certainty that negotiations and changes will go on indefinitely, even more so (we hope) as problems show themselves
 

doctor Bob

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How?

A business owner could say "I am temporarily closing my business to reduce the risk of Covid transmission to staff/customers, but I'm also annoyed about the extra load on my business due to the Brexit deal" (and that would even be fine if that owner had actually voted for Brexit).

Similarly, a member of the public could be in favour of shutting down businesses temporarily (to reduce Covid transmission; not because they wish the business harm), and also be upset that those businesses would be hit by Brexit related red tape when they're running again.

Not an ounce of hypocrisy in those positions. I rather suspect it might be your political leanings coming in there Bob.
I respect your right to talk rubbish, but you are wrong.
 

Noel

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Simplistically, Brexit has thrown up two immediate problems:
  • VAT payments - admin is now similar to imports from non-EU where broadly VAT is due on import (ignoring special schemes)
  • Increased paperwork needs to be paid for either by an import/export surcharge, increased price, or reduced profit
Had there been two or three months to get things sorted, there would be far fewer problems. Two or three days was quite inadequate.

Paperwork costs of (say) £50 would be trivial in the contect of a £20k order, but are a real burden on small value transactions.

Neither of these will be an issue in a year (probably much less). We will (a) get used to the new status quo, (b) the rules may change to make it less of an issue, or (c) we will simply change behaviours.

In any event, getting terribly excited and emotional about is it a complete waste of energy. We can't cancel Brexit.
Can I have the name and number of your customs clearance agent? £50 is a bargain, does that include EurMed certs? Eur1 certs? T2L docs? RoO certs/evidence?
Costs for exporter pre customs, cost for importer pre and during delivery?

Point is, saying "ah sure, 50 quid, what's the big deal?" just shows a complete lack of understanding.
 

sploo

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I respect your right to talk rubbish, but you are wrong.
OK... but can you explain then why that position is wrong? Just "rubbish" isn't really a particularly convincing argument.

In what way is it hypocritical to want to reduce virus transmission rates (accepting that will likely harm a business as a negative side effect), but also wish a business success (i.e. be annoyed at the negative consequences of Brexit on those businesses)?

I can understand how that position is going to frustrating to a business owner; but it's not a hypocritical position, because in both cases no harm is desired to the business. The former (closing due to Covid) is a reluctant acceptance of need due to exceptionally bad circumstances (i.e. the pandemic).
 

doctor Bob

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OK... but can you explain then why that position is wrong? Just "rubbish" isn't really a particularly convincing argument.
No one has convinced anyone of anything in 4+ years. Whether it be intellectual or not.
Many years ago, I actually made the effort with a page long reasoning for why I voted to leave, it was my greatest piece of work ever. I didn't get one reply. However post on here that someone is spouting rubbish and it's incessant. It's the nature of a forum, pick and choose.
 

Jake

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Not fish, non-perishable goods.
Sounds like its relatively simple, high enough order value to justify the additional costs, only difference you should notice is some extra for the customs clearance and having the added VAT transaction like on an order from the States or wherever. Maybe some delay at the moment - hope they get the new paperwork right etc.

Just like with Bob's business with some EU-made goods inputs and domestic aimed outputs. Simple cases.

Do you sell to the EU though? If so, what are your other inputs into your products (apart from your labour) and what is their country of origin? You will need when re-exporting to an EU customer to work out whether the rules of origin qualify your shipment within the FTA.
 

Rorschach

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Sounds like its relatively simple, high enough order value to justify the additional costs, only difference you should notice is some extra for the customs clearance and having the added VAT transaction like on an order from the States or wherever. Maybe some delay at the moment - hope they get the new paperwork right etc.

Just like with Bob's business with some EU-made goods inputs and domestic aimed outputs. Simple cases.

Do you sell to the EU though? If so, what are your other inputs into your products (apart from your labour) and what is their country of origin? You will need when re-exporting to an EU customer to work out whether the rules of origin qualify your shipment within the FTA.
I rarely sell back into the EU so I am not anticipating any problems there.

I was just wondering if anyone had dealt with the VAT system yet. In the past of course it was just paid when ordering, not sure how that will work now. I am not too worried though, a bit of extra hassle the first time I expect.
 

sploo

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No one has convinced anyone of anything in 4+ years. Whether it be intellectual or not.
Many years ago, I actually made the effort with a page long reasoning for why I voted to leave, it was my greatest piece of work ever. I didn't get one reply. However post on here that someone is spouting rubbish and it's incessant. It's the nature of a forum, pick and choose.
That's all kinda unrelated to the matter at hand, but I can understand the frustration in getting no response to a long post. My point is just that there's little value in an argument of "rubbish"; as it doesn't really help an understanding on why that position is held.
 

Jake

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I rarely sell back into the EU so I am not anticipating any problems there.

I was just wondering if anyone had dealt with the VAT system yet. In the past of course it was just paid when ordering, not sure how that will work now. I am not too worried though, a bit of extra hassle the first time I expect.
Should be OK then apart from the current border delays as long as they have their paperwork in order. You'll get a VAT invoice from the shipping company, as per importing from rest of world. The handling fee and having to deal with that extra transaction should be the only difference you notice. Simple case, like I said.
 

Noel

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I rarely sell back into the EU so I am not anticipating any problems there.

I was just wondering if anyone had dealt with the VAT system yet. In the past of course it was just paid when ordering, not sure how that will work now. I am not too worried though, a bit of extra hassle the first time I expect.
You VAT registered?
 
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