Bought the Titan Bandsaw, replacing it with a Record BS250

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petermillard

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I think I did say in my original video that the Titan took a lot more effort to set up than either of the other two, though it looks like you have a particularly poor example, even considering the price.

The Axi one you mention is this year’s model of the one I compared with the Titan & Aldi; it was a nice saw, but my conclusion was that for the money I’d rather spend a bit more and get something with a bit more capacity; snagging the Record for ~£220 is a bargain, though they had a bit of a reputation for delivering rather battered saws for a while, so I’d check it over carefully.

BTW one fun fact that I discovered when chatting with the tech guys at Axminster about the motor rating was that their ‘hobby’ range is only rated for use for an hour a week i.e. an hour of runtime. Funny how Axminster don’t share that too freely...

Let us know how you get along with the Record. P
 

DBT85

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petermillard":2r2p4e3h said:
I think I did say in my original video that the Titan took a lot more effort to set up than either of the other two, though it looks like you have a particularly poor example, even considering the price.

The Axi one you mention is this year’s model of the one I compared with the Titan & Aldi; it was a nice saw, but my conclusion was that for the money I’d rather spend a bit more and get something with a bit more capacity; snagging the Record for ~£220 is a bargain, though they had a bit of a reputation for delivering rather battered saws for a while, so I’d check it over carefully.

BTW one fun fact that I discovered when chatting with the tech guys at Axminster about the motor rating was that their ‘hobby’ range is only rated for use for an hour a week i.e. an hour of runtime. Funny how Axminster don’t share that too freely...

Let us know how you get along with the Record. P
Oh absolutely you did Peter. I'd expect nothing less with this many moving parts built to a budget. Fettling is fine, and as I'd said, if the table was flat I might have even settled with it and made some modifications. That was just what took me over the edge.

I did see a lot of reviews for the Record saws of things being damaged on arrival, so I'll be sure to check it over. Hopefully that little phase is gone now and things have returned to a better level, as few reviews have much to say against the tools themselves.
 

DBT85

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Well just less than 46 hours after ordering it (and with no warning other than the driver of the truck calling to find his way), a £221 Record Power BS250 has arrived at my house. This was purchased from a marketplace called FatLlama. On there, the company that actually sold it to me is Data Powertool Ltd. I was sceptical of the price at first as I'd never heard of FatLlama, but I called Data and they confirmed that it was a new thing for them to be selling on there. I'm guessing the price is them attempting to build a presence on there as they only just started up. I also guess the price will go up for each one that gets sold.

When I open this link on my main browser the price is showing as £260, if I open it in a porn ahem sorry I mean incognito window, its showing as £224.90 including delivery. They usually sell for £260-280.

The box has a slight ding in one corner of which I took a photo just in case, but otherwise it looks to be well secured and in tact. Lets see what we got.

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I'd literally just printed off my cut list to make the cabinet to put it on! I'll hold off just to be sure the measurements supplied by Record actually match the saw. Got to love Sketchup.

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A dial indicator is also winging its way to my doorstep today, so I'll take some measurements on both the Titan and the Record to see how things are wobbling.
 

PeteG

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DBT85":39wl081r said:
Well just less than 46 hours after ordering it (and with no warning other than the driver of the truck calling to find his way), a £221 Record Power BS250 has arrived at my house. This was purchased from a marketplace called FatLlama. On there, the company that actually sold it to me is Data Powertool Ltd. I was sceptical of the price at first as I'd never heard of FatLlama, but I called Data and they confirmed that it was a new thing for them to be selling on there. I'm guessing the price is them attempting to build a presence on there as they only just started up. I also guess the price will go up for each one that gets sold.

When I open this link on my main browser the price is showing as £260, if I open it in a porn ahem sorry I mean incognito window, its showing as £224.90 including delivery. They usually sell for £260-280.

The box has a slight ding in one corner of which I took a photo just in case, but otherwise it looks to be well secured and in tact. Lets see what we got.

Come on you tease, get the bloody box open :D Cracking price that is. I hope it's perfect for you fella :D
 

DBT85

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PeteG":26di9hpk said:
DBT85":26di9hpk said:
Well just less than 46 hours after ordering it (and with no warning other than the driver of the truck calling to find his way), a £221 Record Power BS250 has arrived at my house. This was purchased from a marketplace called FatLlama. On there, the company that actually sold it to me is Data Powertool Ltd. I was sceptical of the price at first as I'd never heard of FatLlama, but I called Data and they confirmed that it was a new thing for them to be selling on there. I'm guessing the price is them attempting to build a presence on there as they only just started up. I also guess the price will go up for each one that gets sold.

When I open this link on my main browser the price is showing as £260, if I open it in a porn ahem sorry I mean incognito window, its showing as £224.90 including delivery. They usually sell for £260-280.

The box has a slight ding in one corner of which I took a photo just in case, but otherwise it looks to be well secured and in tact. Lets see what we got.

Come on you tease, get the bloody box open :D Cracking price that is. I hope it's perfect for you fella :D
haha.

It took me a few hours fiddling but it's beautiful. For twice the price of the Titan, it honestly feels like more than twice the product. Sadly my internet is down so the photos I've taken haven't uploaded from my phone yet. But there's metal bits everywhere, things are solid and don't wiggle! Table is perfectly flat, blade doesn't wobble, the very few cuts I've tried worked nicely.

Apart from the main setup which involved putting the table on its trunion and fitting that, the rest is just setup. Not helped by the manual not mentioning (at all, anywhere) 2 bits of plastic that shroud the lower guides. One you can remove easily. The other only with the table off :evil:. So I drilled a hole in it and adjusted the bearing as required.

Then I had an issue of the upper thrust bearing being close at the top of its range, but miles off at the bottom. While its just 2 bolts to undo and do up again to help align the carriage, it's not an easy adjustment, as naturally undoing them just resets everything. Its one of those that could do with a couple of grub screws or something for fine tuning.

I do have one remaining issue. The arm that holds the upper bearings and moves up and down has a slight angle to its descent. So at the top, the right side bearing is perfectly aligned. At the bottom of its travel that same bearing is now rolling on the blade. When one tightens the carriage down it uses the frame of the top wheel housing as its reference face and clamps down solidly to that. It really won;t budge once done up. But that also means options for shimming it out the roughly .3mm at the top are a little more difficult to come by. I found that some thick paper folded over was very nearly perfect, but it won't stay in place when dropping the carriage.

Nelsun, I can understand why you wouldn't want to be moving it regularly. The titan is 15kg. The BS250 is 25kg for the bandsaw and a further 5.5kg for the table. A nice sturdy "it's staying there" kind of weight!

Photos once my internet isn't borked. I promise. Ohh its so nice.
 

sunnybob

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Always adjust the top blade guides with the sliding arm at the middle of its travel.
1 mm to wide is far better than 1 mm too tight at either end of the travel.
Always ensure blade teeth are in front of the side guides when the blade is pushed back by hand to the rear guide.
NEVER run the blade before checking this. one rotation with the teeth hitting the side guides and the blade is dead.

have fun.
 

DBT85

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PeteG":byf58omp said:
DBT85":byf58omp said:

My future happiness depends upon me having one of those :D It'd make our lass happier as well if it kept me away from the T/S :oops:

:lol: time for a rummage and to head to ebay!
sunnybob":byf58omp said:
Always adjust the top blade guides with the sliding arm at the middle of its travel.
1 mm to wide is far better than 1 mm too tight at either end of the travel.
Always ensure blade teeth are in front of the side guides when the blade is pushed back by hand to the rear guide.
NEVER run the blade before checking this. one rotation with the teeth hitting the side guides and the blade is dead.

have fun.
Yeah I did decide to do that after substantial fiddling trying to get it just right. It doesn't mention it in the manual so I had just done it at the top.

The sides are at least definitely behind the teeth as I made sure of that.

Hopefully I can work something out on the carriage to keep it parallel to the blade at all stages of the travel. Its not out by much.

Sadly I go off to work tonight for the weekend so, just like summer holidays as a kid, you just find something cool to do and then you have to go back to school!
 

DBT85

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With time to kill at work, I can post some photos at last. Very happy with this, I have to say.

So off the top, it's just over double the weight of the Titan at a respectable 30.3KG. That alone means it feels better and, at "just" £221 instead of the usual £260, it does feel like more than just double the price over the £110 Titan.

Metal abounds. Where the titan has plastic doors, plastic guidepost, plastic gearing for the rack and pinion on the guide post etc, the Record is all metal, some steel, some aluminium. Adjusting the guide post up and down feels robust and solid and once locked down, attempting to move the post simply moves the entire machine, unlike the Titan. The wheels have also been balanced with weights rather than drilling. The titan wheels on my sample have about 8 holes drilled in the back side to balance them.
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Also we get 3 A4 manuals, 1 in actual English, 1 in German and 1 in I can't remember. Very nice manuals with the only issue being BW printing, so when they show a black blade on a black tyre to illustrate where the teeth should be, you see nothing at all :lol:. Lots of info in there about setup, minimum radius for different types of blade etc.
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One issue I had was the guide post not dropping parallel to the blade. So by the time you got from max cut depth to min cut depth, the thrust bearing was so far away as to be useless. This black T bar shown below is secured with 2 bolts and is what needs adjusting to correct the issue. The manual doesn't mention it. The T bar is for aligning the guide post only. When snugged down, the aluminium extrusion used for the guide post registers against the casing, NOT the T bar. This leads to my later issue.

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As well as being drunk in that direction which was fiddly but easy to rectify, it is also drunk in lateral movement. At max depth of cut, the guides are further right of the blade, at the min depth of cut the guides are further left of the blade. It isn't much, but it's an annoying enough amount that I'd like to fix it if I can. Thus far, a paper shim in the top of the extrusion between it and the case has done a job, but it won't stay in place when lowering the guide post. A better solution needs to be sought as I'd rather not keep putting it back in place every time, or adjusting the guide bearings to compensate.

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One annoyance was getting everything ready to go and going to re check the lower bearings. These 2 black shrouds came fitted, but are not mentioned or even pictured in the manual. The one to your right is removed with 2 screws on the side face of the case. Easy. The one on the left? That one you need to remove the table to remove the 2 screws to get at the bearing. An oddity resolved swiftly enough with an advanced electrical twist based void creator. As it should have been in the first place.

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At this time all that remains is to square the back of the table with the back of the blade. Everything else is spot on and has remained so. The guides have lots of adjustment in all required directions so you'd not be limited in that regard, and everything being metal means it all stays where you put it.

The mitre fence is, predictably, loose in its slot and not particularly rigid even when done up. Finding something 3rd party that will fit in that small slot will prove difficult at best. No idea how much use it would get anyway, so we'll see how I go there.

The fence is an odd one. One thing I can say is that when its locked down, it's staying there. It is comprised of a main fence and an aluminium extrusion that can be flipped around for low profile support. It's secured with 2 thumb wheels on the back of the main fence, but it's quite thin aluminium so it will bend when tightening up with not much pressure. Additionally and probably most importantly, there is no way of squaring it up on the fence itself. The only option is to shim the fence guide bar attached to the front of the table. I'll see how I get on with it.

The construction feels good, no sharp bits looking to remove a layer of flesh, all painted up nicely and adding to the feeling that you actually bought a tool worth half a damn. Considering how high the price can run on larger bandsaws, That feels like a bit of a feat, IMO.

I've barely managed 5 cuts with it yet, however with several more weeks off off work starting on Monday, hopefully I can get started using it for the jobs I have prepared. I also want to pick up a couple of blades.

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novocaine

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can't argue that it is a considerably better saw than the titan (not that the titan isn't a fantastic saw for the price). glad your happy.

I'm wondering, without the saw in front of me, if you can slip the top wheel carrier to the right a shade on it's mounting bolts which would have the same effect as shimming the guide arm. you can then square the table again and you're good to go.
 

DBT85

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3 blades on the way from tuffsaws. A 6mm 10tpi, a 10mm 6tpi and a 12mm 4tpi. Should see me right for a bit.

Interestingly I saw several videos last night, one from record themselves, talking about dead straight cuts with the bearings thrown wide open, to demonstrate that it is completely possible. One video even threw off the tracking and almost completely untensioned the blade to prove his point about fences and drift.

novocaine":2p0ft92c said:
can't argue that it is a considerably better saw than the titan (not that the titan isn't a fantastic saw for the price). glad your happy.

I'm wondering, without the saw in front of me, if you can slip the top wheel carrier to the right a shade on it's mounting bolts which would have the same effect as shimming the guide arm. you can then square the table again and you're good to go.
Ahh yes an excellent idea and one I'd not considered. I'll have a look on Monday. I'm sure there is some play in there so it might just do the job. I did also contact record about the issue so we’ll see what they say.
 

DBT85

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PeteG":zxudpxfw said:
Any updates fella :D Have you had chance to have a proper play yet?
Sadly not! I've been at work since Thursday night for my entire workload for the month (4 whole days :| ).

I have 24 odd days off as of tomorrow morning so I can get crazing on a host of jobs around the house, one of which being getting the cabinet built to put it on which will put it at a much better height. Also I don't know if Ian at Tuffsaws got my blades shipped out on Friday or not, so they might be at home waiting for me or they might not be there till Tuesday or something.

There will be updates, I promise! Watched so many youtube videos about bandsaws and tracksaws in the last 4 nights at work. Also worked through nearly everything on the Gosforth Handyman channel! Treated myself to a couple of the metric only double sided tape measured he made a video about.

I have plans for a drill powered gocart to build for the kids birthday which will make good use of the bandsaw, as will making the missing fish in one of her jigsaw puzzles :lol: Also have boxing in to do so both the tracksaw and bandsaw will get some use there.

Stay tuned!
 

PeteG

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You're going to have fun putting everything to use :D Will you be making one of the jigs Mr.Millard made for the track saw?
 

DBT85

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PeteG":s45a7b5o said:
You're going to have fun putting everything to use :D Will you be making one of the jigs Mr.Millard made for the track saw?

Probably at some point. Right now I actually just want the cabinet done to get the bandsaw and drill off my workbench as I REALLY want to see the end of this boxing in. One of those jobs that has needed doing but everything else takes precedence. I've done the main bathroom, just finishing off one of the en suites and then they can all get painted with my new sprayer too :p

Frankly the only reason I even did the main bathroom was because the floor was covered in little white footprints where the kittens had walked in the ant powder!

Too many jobs on the to do list. About 75 at last count!
 

PeteG

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DBT85":2tc3qh3p said:
PeteG":2tc3qh3p said:
You're going to have fun putting everything to use :D Will you be making one of the jigs Mr.Millard made for the track saw?

Probably at some point. Right now I actually just want the cabinet done to get the bandsaw and drill off my workbench as I REALLY want to see the end of this boxing in. One of those jobs that has needed doing but everything else takes precedence. I've done the main bathroom, just finishing off one of the en suites and then they can all get painted with my new sprayer too :p

Frankly the only reason I even did the main bathroom was because the floor was covered in little white footprints where the kittens had walked in the ant powder!


I thought the jig might be of help making the B/S cabinet, although it took me much longer to make than Mr.Millard made his.

DBT85":2tc3qh3p said:
Too many jobs on the to do list. About 75 at last count!

When I was itching to get back in the shed last week, our lass said, take your time, no rush, there's plenty of more jobs need doing
once you've done these :D
 

DBT85

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PeteG":3atcfwic said:
I thought the jig might be of help making the B/S cabinet, although it took me much longer to make than Mr.Millard made his.

They always take longer when you're making your first one! For this job I think I'll be ok without. Its only 6 panels and if for some reason one is a fraction out, the world shall not end. We'll see how that actually goes though

I'm hoping to move my workbench and use one of the walls to sort some kind of assembly area/storage out. Again, another job I''ve given myself that won't probably make it to the to do list! Up until now I've been doing the tracksaw cuts on a pair of plastic saw horses with some ply on top, so not nearly as stable as I'd like.

PeteG":3atcfwic said:
When I was itching to get back in the shed last week, our lass said, take your time, no rush, there's plenty of more jobs need doing once you've done these :D

It's always the way! I can spend an entire day doing things and get to dinner and feel like nothing has been done, even though I've been busy all day and knackered. It just wasn't bigger stuff that you can look at and go "yep, don't have to think about that one any more".

The shroud on the catalytic converter on my S2000 has had a horrible rattle since I bought it 4 years ago (not even 3k miles on it since I got it :(). It just needs 4 bolts on it to stop it rattling and sounding horrible at 2k, 4k, 6k and 8k rpm. Have I gotten around to it yet? Have I pineapples. Having to jack up on gravel doesn't help persuade you to get it done. Nor does having to carry the 40kg jack to put under it about 20m to do it!

Had my father in law not parked a chuffing windmill under one of the barns for repairs, I'd do it in there. Alas, we deal with what we have to deal with. He, like me, has about 15 jobs on the go at once. The windmill has been sitting there for over a year now waiting on some gears to be machined.

Anyway I digress. No jigs for this one, but they'll come in time. I think I can get what I want with a quality speed square and some careful measuring.
 

DBT85

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Well the BS250 got a bit of work this week helping with some boxing in. Did some rips in thin ply and some curves and scribing for around bog pipes and so on. Very very pleased.

Neither it or my Numatic Charles coped with the dust. This may or may not have anything to do with me not turning on the Charles. :oops:

The new blades arrived from Tuffsaws just as I started painting it all :lol:. But just to the touch they are much sharper than the stock blade after some light use.

Record got back to me about aligning the guide post to the blade and basically said at this level it's acceptable. Haven't had a chance to try and move the wheel yet but I think that will sort it.

Updates to follow
 

Raymond UK

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I think you'll be quite happy with the BS250. I bought one last year or year before and it was a revelation coming from a Clarke CBS190.

If you're ordering blades, try Ian at Tuffsaws.

Top tip on drilling through the bottom plastic covers. I usually bend them out of the way... :?
 
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