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Anonymous

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I am new to woodworking and i hope that one of you smart guy's and girl's can help me on my way.

I have just got hold of a new Stanley 1 5/8 block plane and i am sure i have read some where that you cannot use a plane straight out of the box and that i will need to sharpen it or put a bevel on it before i can use it. Is this correct?
The cutter sits at 21 degrees so is this the angle i set the sharpening guide to?

Iam sure that this is a very stupid question to all of you but i have got to start somewhere.

Thank you.

Great Forum

Paul
 

Alf

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Paul,

Fair enough question. If I remember correctly my Stanley block plane came with the instructions for bench planes, which was a fat lot of good. :evil: The short answer is 25 degrees.

Now here's the long answer. :lol: Okay, you should already have a bevel on it, unless Stanley are really cutting costs these days. :? On block planes the blade goes in facing up with the bevel up. It should be easy to tell, unless there was a cock-up in the making of the blade, because the Stanley name will be on the side that shows. (After all there's not much point in putting it where no one will see it. :wink:) What you need to do is hone the bevel on the sharpening medium of your choice. The angle you choose makes a difference on bevel up planes. The steeper the bevel you hone, the steeper the angle at which blade meets wood. The bevel angle you sharpen is added to the bedding angle (21 degrees in this case) to make the angle at which the blade meets the wood. Generally the irons come with a 25 degree bevel, and you're probably best to hone at this angle too. So the bedding angle plus the bevel angle gives you the angle at which wood meets blade. 21+25 = 46 degrees. Actually 1 degree higher than a standard bench plane. You can hone at a lower angle than that, although you'd have to grind the bevel lower first, but the edge becomes rather weak. At which point a back bevel comes in again... but that's the advanced lesson. :D

If you fancy super-tuning your block plane then get hold of a copy of David Charlesworth's Furniture making Techniques Vol. 1 which goes into great detail on the improvements you can make.

Hope that helps and doesn't blind you with science! Thousands of words have been expended trying to explain bevels and sharpening, so don't be worried if I've merely confused you (I do that sometimes). To start out just stick with the same angle of bevel the blade came with and see how it goes.

Cheers, Alf
 
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Anonymous

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Hi Paul

Pretty much what Alf said, with the following added - for a good way to sharpen and hone blades take a look at the ScarySharp TM system at (shorter version) http://home.earthlink.net/~kvaughn65/scary.html or the original longish version is here http://groups.google.com/groups?saf...d=477j5j$ij4@nntp4.u.washington.edu&lr=&hl=en. The finer emery paper can be obtained from Halfords (up to about 1200/1500 grit). This will produce a blade which an shave the hairs off your arm, no problem.

Scrit
 

Midnight

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Paul2":36x5tdgf said:
I am new to woodworking and i hope that one of you smart guy's and girl's can help me on my way.

I have just got hold of a new Stanley 1 5/8 block plane and i am sure i have read some where that you cannot use a plane straight out of the box and that i will need to sharpen it or put a bevel on it before i can use it. Is this correct?
The cutter sits at 21 degrees so is this the angle i set the sharpening guide to?

Iam sure that this is a very stupid question to all of you but i have got to start somewhere.

Thank you.

Great Forum

Paul
Paul..
I've come across a ton of stupid questions in my time; I assure you, this isn't one of them. Personally... I reckon if you follow Alf's advise you can't go far wrong. About the only way I differ is in the prefered angle to hone to. Personally I hone the bevel using a 6000 grit Ice Bear water stone at an angle of 30 degrees. But like I said, that's a preference thing...
One word of caution though...
Them hand planes are addictive... be warned...
:wink:
 
A

Anonymous

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Hi All,

Thank you for your advice. I am going to try sharping it tommrow and i will let you know how i get along. It is good to know that there are fellow woodworkers out there who give great advice to us novices without taking the Michael.

Thank you all

Paul2
 
A

Anonymous

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Hi,

One thing i forgot to ask about was the sharpening stone. The one i was given has two sides, one is black and the other side is green. Which side do i use to hone the blade?
The green side feels the smoothest (just) so i have got a feeling that this is the side i use but i am not really sure.

If this is the case would i then use the black side for putting a edge back on the bevel if it got chipped for instance?

The trouble is i was given alot of tools by one of my neighbors who husband has just past on and although quite a few of the things were new there was no instructions with any of them.

Among the tools was also a diamond wetstone about 6 inches long. I know that you can sharpen router bits etc with these but can you sharpen planer blades too?

Once again thank you all for your advice.

Paul2
 

Midnight

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Paul2":fct66vwu said:
Hi,

One thing i forgot to ask about was the sharpening stone. The one i was given has two sides, one is black and the other side is green. Which side do i use to hone the blade?
The green side feels the smoothest (just) so i have got a feeling that this is the side i use but i am not really sure.

If this is the case would i then use the black side for putting a edge back on the bevel if it got chipped for instance?

The trouble is i was given alot of tools by one of my neighbors who husband has just past on and although quite a few of the things were new there was no instructions with any of them.

Among the tools was also a diamond wetstone about 6 inches long. I know that you can sharpen router bits etc with these but can you sharpen planer blades too?

Once again thank you all for your advice.

Paul2

This from the guy who thinks he asks dumb questions... ;)

Damn near nailed it Paul.... rough side is for fast material removal... smooth side is for putting the edge on....

Couple of pointers...
Firstly... you gotta make sure both surfaces of the stone are nice and flat. I've madea crude jig to do this... old piece of kitchen worktop with some sanding belts cut open and glued down to it. I get by with 3 grades... To flatten the stone, I'd rub it over the 120 grit belt till I've evened out the high spots; check it every couple of strokes, it doesn't take too long.
BTW, this same jig is perfect for flattening the soles of the Stanley and Record planes I bought.
Next step is to flatten the back of the blade in question....... needs to see both sides of the stone... rough side first... and polished till you've removed any hollows... you should only ever need to do this once...
Try to adjust your action and the angle you hold the blade to even out the wear right across the stone, fully edge to edge... side to side...

Next bit is to work on the bevel... to do this accurately, you'd be foolish NOT to use a honing guide... a tool to hold the blade at a precicely set angle, and maintain that angle so all you need focus on is your action. Personally I swear by the Veritas guide; expensive, but worth it's weight in gold. Set the blade at 25 degrees, oil the stone and start to sharpen. Working with the guide takes a little getting used to; it's all too easy to fall off either end if you get a bit too enthusiastic.. just mind you don't dig the tip into the stone and gouge it or it'll need flattening again. Check frequently.. when the bevel looks fresh all the way to the tip, side to side, flip over the stone and start to polish it. With a general purpose stone you won't get it shiney, the fine side's just too course, but it'll produce an acceptable edge for now. Again, check periodically. When you're happy, remove the blade from the guide and give the back a couple of light strokes to remove he wire edge from the tip. Back to the jig and reset the angle to something suitable for honing. Personally I've found 30 degrees works fine for me... most of the time...
Honing is going to put the cutting edge into your blade. On a newly sharpened bevel, honing shouldn't take more than a minute to get an acceptable edge. Once again, give the back a couple of strokes to remove the wire edge and you're good to go. Wipe the blade and guide clean, pack the stone away and have AT it....
 
A

Anonymous

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Hmm, I thought one of the main benefits of the Veritas honing guide is that you don't remove the iron from the guide to put the secondary bevel on. You just turn the cam one or two points. Two points will give you a 27 degree secondary bevel for a 25 degree primary.

You don't have to remove the iron from the guide to clean up the back of the iron, since with the 25 degree primary angle you generally have a couple of inches of the iron sticking out from the guide.

Other than that small point, I agree that the Veritas guide is a wonderful piece of kit for plane irons - bit of a problem with narrow blades though, due to the clamping method.
 

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Paul,

Presumably you know if they're oil stones of waterstones? You want to make sure you use the right stuff with the right stone. :wink: Other than that, what Mike said.

Regarding the diamond whetstone; yep, you can use 'em for everything. They don't always give as fine an edge as you might want, but for rapid sharpening and no worries about keeping the stone flat they're the biz. What you'll find it most useful for depends on the grade. Is it one of those dotty ones? In which case, the colour will determine the grade. Although that depends on the manufacturer too, just to confuse the issue. :roll: If it's one of those cheap Chinese jobbies than don't expect to get much accurate sharpening done with it, although they still have their uses.

I got the impression from your first post that you already have a honing guide? Don't feel you have to rush out and get the Veritas will you? (Unless you want to, of course :wink: ) I'm sure it's the bee's knees, but I use a side-clamping Eclipse type and the Stanley one, and they do the job just fine. To make life a little easier it's worth making a simple setting jig. Just a piece of board with a stop set at the right distance from the edge. Put the front edge of the honing guide against the front of the board, and butt the edge of the blade against the stop. Voila! Perfect setting every time.

Cheers, Alf

P.S. You were just given all these tools?! Sheesh, why doesn't that ever happen to me? :lol:
 
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Anonymous

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Hi All,

In reverse order, yes Alf i am really lucky, i was given quite a few hand tools and a Record26 scrollsaw (which is a excellent beast), the only trouble is it was under sad circumstances because as i said her husband had just died.
The guide i have is a Stanley. You clamp the blade in and it runs forward and back on 2 plastic wheels.

Midnight,

The block plane is new, never been used and it has a bevel on it. So do i still work on it as you state below or just hone it?
The Veritas honing jig sounds just right, but seeing as i am just a novice it might be wise to practise with the Stanley first, or would the Veritas make things easier for me? If so where can i get one from?

Once again thank you for your help.

Paul2
 
A

Anonymous

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I was the one with the point above about the cam on the Veritas.

You want an opinion? I own both the Veritas and the Stanley honing guides, and I use them both. The Veritas costs around 30 quid. The Stanley costs about a fiver. So....use the Stanley if you have one, and if you don't, go out and buy either the Stanley or an Eclipse clone. Once you get more comfortable with the planes, and want to improve the irons, then you'll want to consider moving away from your combination stone to either Japanese waterstones or to SS (TM), and it's at this point you may want to consider the expense of the Veritas. Personally, I use the Stanley & a belt sander to regrind primary bevel, and the Veritas for the fine honing (Scary Sharp method, but we won't go into that just now). But I did use the Stanley with perfectly good results for years. Follow Alf's advice re the setting jig, since the little black plastic thing is useless for setting the angle.
 

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Paul,

I found a pic of the sort of jig I had in mind, and it'll work fine with the Stanley (but it might be easier to flip the guide over to give a positive stop on the front edge, if I'm remembering the Stanley correctly). Although, because that type won't automatically hold the blade square it might pay you to put a side stop too, as mentioned later in the thread. Sharpening Tip Thread

Even if you do fancy upgrading, hang onto the Stanley as it'll cope with shorter blades like spokeshaves which the others won't touch.

Cheers, Alf
 

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Paul2":bgvjztwx said:
Hi All,

Midnight,

The block plane is new, never been used and it has a bevel on it. So do i still work on it as you state below or just hone it?
The Veritas honing jig sounds just right, but seeing as i am just a novice it might be wise to practise with the Stanley first, or would the Veritas make things easier for me? If so where can i get one from?

Once again thank you for your help.

Paul2
Hey Paul....
New block plane huh....?? enjoy.... :wink:
Personally, I would go over all sides of it as I outlined last night.. pay particular attention to the back, get it good and flat and it'll only need the occasional tickle in future. The bevel shouldn't need much attention, but spending a minute or so polishing it on the fine side of the stone will take out the worst of the factory sharpening groves left in it. Then focus on honing the cutting edge.
Where (in hinesight) I'd spend most of my time is flattening the sole of the plane itself. Check how flat it is end to end, then how square it is side to side. Chances are you'll see some hollows there. I was able to polish them out of my Stanley and Record block planes using that sanding belt glued to a board I mentioned last night. It's not a fast job, and by god is it messy but the results are well worth the effort. Again, this is something that, once done properly, will never need anything more than a tickle in future.

If you already have a honing guide, I'd stick with it. Study the set up instructions that came with it. Alf's suggestion about making a set up jig is one well worth considering; it'll save a bunch of time in the long run.

Above all... don't let mediocre first results put you off... like everything else, sharpening is a skill that improves over time. With a good stone, accurate jig and guide you'll give yourself more than a fair chance of getting good results every time... Patience, practice... persistence..

Ohhhh..... and a good stock of cleaning rags... the wife winna appreciate you cleaning the residue off on your jeans..
 
A

Anonymous

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Hi Alf, Mike,

Well i took the plunge and sharpened my block plane blade and it seems to have turned out alright. It is probably blunt compared to your planes but at least it is now producing shavings.

Alf thanks for the link to the sharpening jig but how does it work? I know that it is probably clear as day to those of you who are used to jigs/sharpening etc, but i could not see it (sorry).

Thank you both for your help, and Mike i will remember the cleaning rags because after all who wants a ear bashing from her in doors.

Paul2
 

Alf

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Paul,

Honing guides work on a simple principle. The distance the blade is from the wheels makes the angle at which the blade meets the stone. The further out it projects, the lower the angle; the closer it is to the wheel, the steeper the angle. Try it and see. The jig works by making the distance the blade projects from the honing guide repeatable every time. For instance, with the Stanley, for a 25 deg honing ange you project the blade 25mm from the front edge. You could use a rule and just measure this every time, but it's easier to have a piece of ply of whatever with a stop 25mm from the edge. Butt the front of the guide against the edge of the jig and push the blade forward until it hits the stop. Tighten up and Bob's your uncle, 25 degs every time. Make it double ended with another stop 12.5mm from the other edge and you can set for 30 degs just as easily. But remember to mark which is which, and DAMHIKT... :oops: Hope that clears it up. If not I'll have to get out the camera and take a few pics, or else take a crash course in descriptive writing. :lol:

Cheers, Alf

Ooops! I forgot to say the important bit. :oops: Congrats on the shavings, and has anybody mentioned the Slippery Slope to you at all? Perhaps we should have done that earlier...
 
A

Anonymous

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Alf,

Thanks for the explanation. It looks like this jig will save alot of time setting up and there will be no mistakes. Just want a novice like me needs.

By the way i found another 2 Stanley planes in the bottom of another box. One is a No4 and the second is a SB3. Do you know what sort of jobs these are for, and what degree should i hone them at?
Also do i work on the bevels (they have been used) like i did on the block plane. If so at what degree?

No i was not warned about the "Slippery Slope", but that does not worry me anyway, after all they are only planes. Now where did i put that Lie Nielson catalouge?

Cheers

Paul
 

Alf

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Paul,

Sorry 'bout that. I was going to answer yesterday, but was all typed out and then forgot to return. Anyway, take yourself over to BugBear's page on hand planes, which will give you a good run down of all the links you're likely to find useful. If you're not back in a week, we'll send search parties... That'll explain the #4 to you, and also introduce you to the terror that is Blood & Gore. :wink: Take especial note of Jeff Gorman's Woodwork Notebook. Not only is he a Brit (Hoorah!) but he knows of that which he speaks. Highly recommended.

The only thing that you probably won't find on there is the SB3. The #3 size is a smaller smoother, which can be handy. The SB3/4 are/were Stanley's lower quality planes, aimed at the handyman. Don't despair though; I think someone suggested it could be made into a servicable scrub plane. For the time being, put the SB3 aside and you may find, as your knowledge increases, that you return to it with a fresh idea of its possible use. (Paperweight, doorstop, etc... :wink: )

Cheers, Alf
 
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Anonymous

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Hi Alf,

Thanks for the info. So the SB3 is the black sheep. Well i am not going to lose any sleep over one bad plane out of boxes of free goodies.

Talk about goodies i notice that you have some for sale. Are you a sadist or what. Here we all are itching to get our hands on some decent planes, (ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE A NOVICE LIKE POOR ME WHO HAS TO MADE DO WITH THE SADDEST OF ALL PLANES THE "SB3") and you make us wait until Tuesday. Its just not right. You should be banned from this forum and whipped to within an inch of your life with a soggy fag paper.

Well there i go again. Sorry about that but i am on day release and the doctor has warned me about getting excited.

By the way do you know what the Delta Oscillating sander is like?, because i see that Rutlands has knocked it down to £99. Is it worth it?

Cheers

Paul2
 

Alf

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Paul,

Me? A sadist? Oh, you noticed the thumb screws? No, I'm not a user; just a collector... :lol:

Hmm, I wonder if the SBs are the black sheep that accounts for an urge to dismiss them by saying "Bah"? :? BTW, "boxes"? Plural? More than one? Nope, no sympathy from me about the SB3 then :p

Can't help on ossi-sanding whatsits. Never seen one, except on the telly with The Bearded Wonder. Closest I've come was a drum sander in a drill press when I hadn't tightened up the chuck enough... :shock: :lol: Probably worth searching The Wreck archives to see if there's any info there. Edit: There is, here.

Cheers, Alf
 
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