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BHwoodworking

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what is the difference between bevel up and bevel downs? and which is better or are the both good for different jobs and planes
 

Droogs

Is that chisel shar ... Ow
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Well that is an explosive question, almost as fraught as one on sharpening. there are some instances where a bevel up (the back of the iron, the bit you concentrate on when sharpening, is on top) is more suited to use than a bevel down. As far as I have ever been able to comprehend it sort of goes like this use a bevel up plane when you have very gnarly are difficult grain or end grain situations. There are many of the modern manufacturers willing to sell you BU planes by claiming it is the only way to do these difficult woods but hey, I have 20+ moulding planes all BD and all my bench planes are BD as well. I have 4 BU planes, they are 2 block planes; 1 is a low angle 69 1/2 and a shoulder plane and a snub nose shoulder/chisel plane. Apart from them I have never needed to buy any BU bench planes.
On the other hand I believe Derek Cohen (OTP) uses them quite a lot but then he is mainly working with argumentative Aussie twigs that we never really get to see or use
 

whiskywill

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Droogs":159qr8io said:
a bevel up (the back of the iron, the bit you concentrate on when sharpening, is on top)
I am confused. Do you consider it be the back because it is on the opposite side to the makers stamp or etching?

How can I flatten the "back" of my iron if it has a bevel on it? :?
 

D_W

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BHwoodworking":2x6mv6t6 said:
what is the difference between bevel up and bevel downs? and which is better or are the both good for different jobs and planes
If you listen to woodworking retailers, they'll try to convince you that one is better than the other for certain jobs.

In general, if you stick around long enough in this hobby, you'll find that there's not a lot of use for bevel up planes in serious work. A stanley 4 generally is easier to use trimming and squaring end grain on wide panels than is a bevel up plane.

The fascination with bevel up planes is driven mostly by the assumption that they're needed to prevent tearout - and set steep (that's not the case) and that beginners have an easier time getting up and running with them, but they're not particularly good for anything other than end grain and light smoothing, and they're bettered by a common stanley when it comes to smoothing.
 

D_W

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Droogs":ievamyne said:
On the other hand I believe Derek Cohen (OTP) uses them quite a lot but then he is mainly working with argumentative Aussie twigs that we never really get to see or use
Probably lots less now than he used to, but the high pitch bevel down and bevel up type planes are popular on the aussie woodworking forum under the assumption by many that a stanley plane can do a little to control tearout, but not enough (that's not correct in general, but some users may not have the inclination to learn to use a stanley plane properly, and that's also probably fine on the extra hard and nasty stuff - nobody is going to do heavy planing in it, anyway).
 

Nigel Burden

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Isn't the angle of attack similar on both.

My Stanley no 4 or my Record no 5 1/2 both deal with reversing grain if they are set to take a very thin shaving with the cap iron adjusted tight to the cutting edge. The no 4 is also good on end grain, better in fact than any of my three block planes.

Nigel.
 

D_W

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Anything can be done with bevel angles (someone with big pockets can buy LN's different frogs, and someone with thinner pockets can put back bevels on a stanley common pitch plane if they can't figure out the cap iron - but the cap iron probably allows you to work twice as fast or more through a given piece of wood).

Obviously, the original pitch for the BU planes here (and I went through that phase early on) was to buy blades either with differing angles or grind them to differing angles. It sounds good when you're first starting, like purchasing tires for different weather conditions, but you eventually just want to be able to put a plane under your bench and pull it out and use it on everything that you come across without feeling like you're playing with legos.
 

Pete Maddex

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The wod doesn't care which way the blade is up.

A close set cap iron will tame most difficult wood.

Pete
 
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