• We invite you to join UKWorkshop.
    Members can turn off viewing Ads!

Best vintage Chisels

UKworkshop.co.uk

Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:

Jacob

Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
Joined
7 Jul 2010
Messages
20,233
Reaction score
1,549
Location
Derbyshire
It's a sash scribing gouge for scribing the moulded parts of window sashes.
How was it used?
Interesting link. Have a feeling that very specialised tools were not that commonly used, firstly because there's not many of them about but mainly because the work can be done without them, and probably was, by and large. Semi specialised tools - varieties of moulding plane are very common and rebate planes probably most common of all old woodies still kicking around.
 

Adam W.

Established Member
UKW Supporter
Joined
18 Apr 2021
Messages
1,220
Reaction score
1,153
Location
London, Jutland.
You're probably right.

There's loads of theories thought up by quasi academic types, who have never held a hand tool, let alone used one on any live project.

Take the sash scribing plane in that article. It's a git to use unless you rack up a good quantity of bars in a clamp and do them all at once before they are moulded. If you don't do that the moulding gets trashed, no matter how sharp it is.

How was the scribing gouge I have used ? I don't know.

What's the purpose of the wooden sheath ? It might be a depth stop that gets shortened as the gouge wears, but I don't know that either.

The best way to find out is by getting hold of the tools and putting them to use.
 
Last edited:

workshopted

Established Member
Joined
15 Nov 2016
Messages
161
Reaction score
125
Location
bristol
You're going to have to stop showing pictures of that chest, as I keep eyeing up a piece of boxwood and a new Skelton handsaw to cut the veneer.

I'm on the waiting list already because of you.
Shane will be very pleased, Adam... Grin!
 

workshopted

Established Member
Joined
15 Nov 2016
Messages
161
Reaction score
125
Location
bristol
You're probably right.

There's loads of theories thought up by quasi academic types, who have never held a hand tool, let alone used one on any live project.

Take the sash scribing plane in that article. It's a git to use unless you rack up a good quantity of bars in a clamp and do them all at once before they are moulded. If you don't do that the moulding gets trashed, no matter how sharp it is.

How was the scribing gouge I have used ? I don't know.

What's the purpose of the wooden sheath ? It might be a depth stop that gets shortened as the gouge wears, but I don't know that either.

The best way to find out is by getting hold of the tools and putting them to use.
sash gouge etc.PNG
 

dannyr

Established Member
Joined
12 May 2019
Messages
409
Reaction score
137
Location
Sheffield UK
Here's another - also a couple of scrapers/chisels poss patternmaker style ... both to continue themes as above.

The round ended bevel chisels were from a flea market stall where the only other chisels were a couple of long cranked gouges as used by patternmakers, but the stall owner knew nothing of their history. Anyone out there used this type of 'mystery chisel' and what for (apart from opening tins and mixing paint)?
cisscrape1.JPG
cisscrape1.JPG
cisscrape2.JPG
 

Jacob

Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
Joined
7 Jul 2010
Messages
20,233
Reaction score
1,549
Location
Derbyshire
Let's turn the light on.
Yes but
The most complicated work in making the sash
box is cutting out the sash pocket in the pulley
stiles, through which the weights are reached. It is
necessary to make both transverse and
longitudinal cuts in a position that cannot be
reached with general tools. A special chisel – the
sash pocket chisel – was developed for this job,
though the exact way it was intended to be used is
still a matter of speculation.

She's wrong about the most common method being complicated - it's easy I've done hundreds - and she says the use of the sash "pocket" chisel is a matter of speculation - in other words she doesn't know. Best explanation was JobandKnock's I thought Best vintage Chisels

Looking at the mystery scribing chisels above, I winder if they were designed to slide in one of the various other accessories, "sticking boards" or some sort of guide of its own? It'd account for the very precise and consistent shape of the handle - it looks designed to fit something.
 
Last edited:

workshopted

Established Member
Joined
15 Nov 2016
Messages
161
Reaction score
125
Location
bristol
Yes but
The most complicated work in making the sash
box is cutting out the sash pocket in the pulley
stiles, through which the weights are reached. It is
necessary to make both transverse and
longitudinal cuts in a position that cannot be
reached with general tools. A special chisel – the
sash pocket chisel – was developed for this job,
though the exact way it was intended to be used is
still a matter of speculation.

She's wrong about the most common method being complicated - it's easy I've done hundreds - and she says the use of the sash "pocket" chisel is a matter of speculation - in other words she doesn't know. Best explanation was JobandKnock's I thought Best vintage Chisels

Looking at the mystery scribing chisels above, I winder if they were designed to slide in one of the various other accessories, "sticking boards" or some sort of guide of its own? It'd account for the very precise and consistent shape of the handle - it looks designed to fit something.
A few years my pal Richard Arnold made a short video of a sash scribing gouge in action. Take a look on his Instagram page.
http://instagr.am/p/BY_oe07geya/
 

Jacob

Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
Joined
7 Jul 2010
Messages
20,233
Reaction score
1,549
Location
Derbyshire
A few years my pal Richard Arnold made a short video of a sash scribing gouge in action. Take a look on his Instagram page.
http://instagr.am/p/BY_oe07geya/
Right! Seems to be the answer. Had to watch it a couple of times to see what he was doing. The woodwork behind the blade stops it going through and breaking out so you have to cut it from both sides for a clean cut.
Thanks for that.
PS come to think - I don't see that you'd need that mitre and paring at the start, a sharp whack on the chisel would drive it half way ?
 
Last edited:

dannyr

Established Member
Joined
12 May 2019
Messages
409
Reaction score
137
Location
Sheffield UK
bevbev2.JPG
bevbev1.JPG


Let's keep em coming.

Anyone else see or use this little extra angled bevel --- both these are more or less as found (ages ago), both very solid old chisels, not just firmer, maybe would be framers or marine, one Ward and Payne, one Henry Taylor, and I saw a similar bevel in a page of an old catalogue of Marples? From pre WWI?

Is it just deco like the saw nib, or does it have some use eg to let the chisel cut a tiny bit further into a corner or if ground on, maybe there's a tiny bit less hand sharpening?

And the third chisel, Ward, is what I think might have been the first type of forged bolster for registered chisels.

I've got many more to ask about and one further question -- exactly how sad is it to own so many chisels (don't ask) when I only use about 3 or 4 most of the time?
 
Last edited:

D_W

Established Member
Joined
24 Aug 2015
Messages
7,846
Reaction score
1,252
Location
PA, US
I have a butcher chisel that's set up exactly like that (wheel ground or stoned in a triangle like that- slightly longer triangle, but no longer than it would need to be to pare into corners.

Some of the seaton chisels have bevel modification that looks highly user-done compared to the very neat file work that's up on the tang and bolster from the makers.

One of the biggest nonsense things around is $100 dovetail chisels when you can literally lay any unloved firmer chisel against a grinder wheel or belt and make it a "Dovetail" chisel.

At one point in the past, I had a set of americanized japanese "dovetail chisels", too. They are the result of the beginner's market wanting something specific and the sellers are left to either tell people that they don't make sense or just make what they want (I remember a pretty pointed statement from leonard lee at one point talking about customers saying they're measuring this or that to be a thou out of flat or some such things and eventually you just give in and make things the way people say they want them).

If I had the stomach to try to charge people $100 for simple chisels, I could make a living making all of these little specialty chisels.
 

D_W

Established Member
Joined
24 Aug 2015
Messages
7,846
Reaction score
1,252
Location
PA, US

hamburger at surf and turf price.

I don't think I'd have much luck convincing most beginners that an old I.Sorby or Ward chisel with an integral bolster is better than an over polished thing with a piece of thin flat stock (in an alloy that doesn't make a very good chisel, but is convenient for the manufacturer) stuffed in a handle with an old ferrule to hide the joint.

As long as a clean ward is less than a "blue spruce" chisel, the world is upside down.
 

D_W

Established Member
Joined
24 Aug 2015
Messages
7,846
Reaction score
1,252
Location
PA, US
All this and we haven't even started to talk about the blunt chisel and the technique of using it. :love:
A very good option when something is too hard to pare accurately. Great for plane beds and adjusting anything end grain, even back into the grain (sometimes difficult to pare).

Doesn't require a good chisel, either - just a chisel. I didn't watch the video as I scabbed this off of a CD of photos that Bill and his Mrs. used to sell (a lovely thing for them to do - sharing things they didn't really need to share), but even better is the technique if a chisel is rehardened and left basically untempered. It'll hold the corner a little better and grind crisply. Even relatively junky chisels will be bullet hard without tempering.
 
Top