Bench Build

[phil p]

Hi Guys,

Back again.

Just started to build my bench over the weekend and everything is going well, apart from........

Didn't really plan what I wanted to build, didn't sketch it, bought the wrong size timber (I think), joints arn't very good etc etc!

Apart from that everything went swimmingly well.

I was originally going to build it with 4 x 2's, however when I got to the timber merchants I ended up buying 75 x 75, haven't a clue why, think it was the kid in the sweet shop syndrome. Marked it all out for the M & T joints and set out 40mm for the depth, however decided to make them 60 mm to make it a stronger joint?

I researched the thickness of the tenon and by generule of thumb seemed to be about a third of the thickness of the wood so I make the thickness of it 30mm which left 20mm each side for the cheeks, what a job, not so much for the tenon, dare I say made a vey nice job as I used my small bandsaw and finished them on the router table, however the mortices were far more difficult and by the time I fiddled with them the joints are rather slack.

I bought a 12mm long router bit from Wealdens to do 12 mm M & T joints but didn't think they would be strong enough with 70mm timber?

Also doing 60mm tenons the end ones and the long stretcher ones would collide (hope you know what I mean)

Seriously though, here's my dilemma.

With all the adjustments and fiddling around, the legs are slightly shorter, increasing the lenth of the tenon it's slightly narrower etc etc, should I bite the bullet and start again from scratch?

All I would is lose is £30 quids worth of timber, my weekend, and a bucket load of sweat.

Should I stick with using the 70mm stuff or start again and just get some 4 x 2 to make life easier.

What do you think (please don't say buy one!)

Thanks
Phil

 

[bench_monkey]

For what it's worth I'd glue and screw it all together as best you can and brace it to stop any flex. My bench at work is only 4x3s glued and screwed together with braces and that's ample!

 

[rafezetter]

Hi

For the legs you could glue / screw on some blocks, maybe larger than 75x75 to give you even more stability (if you are on a level floor) and if not on a level floor fix some levelling feet.

If you wanted it to support a wider top; then on the sides add some brace blocks to the outsides of the legs - make them long enough to have at least 2 sets of bolts or screws into the legs - if you need the edges to be flush with the top then add some full length timbers on top of the brace blocks flush with the original set so you'll have inner and outer support "rings" for the top.

 

[MARK.B.]

Its your call on that phil but it doesent sound that bad to me,use a decent expanding glue on the slack m&t joints and see how it goes,if nothing else you can use this one to build a new one on and learn from your mistakes

 

[longinthetooth]

Phil - you'll work it out first next time, won't you? Won't you?? Bit louder, I can't hear ...

If the sides of your mortices are rough and you can do a tidy job of cleaning them up, you could bandsaw some blanks to glue in (grain same direction as the surrounding material) - a friction fit, drive them in (hopefully w/o splitting the leg material!) ... then re-mortice ...

Normally we mortice first then cut tenons to fit ...

Mark - expanding glue to me suggests PU - this has no strength when foamed, its gap-filling property is only visual ...

 

[Reggie]

Hi Phil, sorry to hear you're having a harder time than you expected with the bench build The wood being crazy sizes doesn't help, there's a thread around here somewhere, essentially, what you ask for will be an approximation depending on the type of wood.

As for the mortices and tenons, I would've thought it would be better to mark out and cut the mortices first and then base the tenons on the holes you end up with as the tenons are far easier to whittle down to the right size. Marking out is only meaningful if you have the skill to chop both accurately, which is somewhere I fall down right now too. Does your bench need to be held together with mortice and tenon joints? Perhaps you might have more luck doing 1/2 lap joints, even easier to cut than m&t joints, you can err on the side of caution and use a chisel to slowly approach perfection.



As for starting again, how critical is the size of everything? Is it imperative that it be exactly that long? If you're going to start again, might I suggest having a look at all of the different bench building videos there are out there for some inspiration, I'm going to suggest paul sellers bench building set as he shows how to hand chop mortices and tenons very easily, I'm sure others will be along with other examples you might like to look at too.

 

[The Bear]

I would carry on and finish this bench, even if you have to "bodge" a few bits. Then use it for a good while, get a feel for the elements you like and those you don't. Decide if the dimensions are right for you. Use it to make some stuff and practice the skills you need to make the next one.

The next one will then be a much bigger leap forward to your ideal. Good luck


Mark (who has never made a bench but uses an ex school one)

 

[Baldhead]

I would carry on and finish this bench, even if you have to "bodge" a few bits. Then use it for a good while, get a feel for the elements you like and those you don't. Decide if the dimensions are right for you. Use it to make some stuff and practice the skills you need to make the next one.

The next one will then be a much bigger leap forward to your ideal. Good luck


Mark (who has never made a bench but uses an ex school one)

+1

I am making my first bench because I'm sick of working from my old Black and Decker workbench. I am using 4x2 CLS timber and being lazy there are no M&T joints, everything will be glued and screwed. I will post WIP pictures when it's finished. It's not going to be great but hopefully it will suit my needs.

BH

 

[Reggie]

I've currently got a black and decker style bench, they're pretty useless, then again, it looks like it's made from tinfoil anyway, so I'm not expecting much Still waiting around for a friend to get back to me on prices, he went away with dimensions of 10.5m of 4x2 and came back with a price for a sheet of 3/4" plywood......

 

[yetloh]

Phil,

The first thing to do is to stop agonising about it. Don't throw it away, use it. My first bench was made from 3 x3 softwood with some dodgy M&Ts. It is still going strong 20 years later. Don't rely on a gap filling polyurethaner glue - it fills the gaps with bubbles which have negligible strength. Tidy up your mortices, cut some slivers on your bandsaw to glue to the tenons to make them a bit bigger than the mortices. When the glue has cured you can trim them so they are a good fit. This will give you really good joints and no one will ever guess. If you do end up with a bit more flex in the structure, just add some bracing as others have said.

I too ended up with legs a bit short. I just cut pieces of 3 x 3 to the width of the frame, stood the frame on them and screwed on 6 x 3 steel plates joining cross pieces to legs - one each side, so 8 in all. I then had a bench that was 3" higher and stiffer into the bargain. OK, it isn't that pretty but it did the job and it was my first attempt and is still going strong. We all learn from our mistakes.

Good luck,

Jim

 

[bugbear]

If you do end up with a bit more flex in the structure, just add some bracing as others have said.

+1 on the bracing.

Why (oh why) do woodworkers make rectilinear structures from weak wood, when structural engineers routinely use bracing in strong steel?

BugBear

 

[AndyT]

Some good advice there. There is no great need for the understructure of a bench to have beautiful joints; you can do perfectly well with screws and glue and no joints at all. It's the stable top that matters the most.

Also, there is no cast-iron rule that says a bench can only have two sets of legs (like a table does). Mine - which I made from scrap nearly 30 years ago - has two supports made of 2x3 softwood and two more made of chipboard and blockboard stood on edge. It has always been completely rigid.

(I did also screw it down onto a concrete floor, which make a huge improvement if you can do it.)

Edit: For your 'colliding joints' problem there are various solutions - letting the tenons meet inside the leg and mitreing the ends is the solution if you are making the frame under a table top - but for a bench you can just put the side to side bits and the front to back bits at different heights!

 

[anaminal]

where'd you get your timber from? I'm planning a similar project (french style according to Chris Schwartz) costed basic materials not including vices at around £120 from B&Q / Wickes.

 

[yetloh]

Places like B&Q and Wickes are not the places to go if you want good quaality softwood, as well documented in various posts on this forum. You are generally much better off going to a local timber merchant. A good starting point is to talk to some local joiners to find out where they buy from.

Jim

 

[Reggie]

Step away from the superstore and look around for local timber merchants.

As a for instance, the legs for mine are £3.30 per metre, 69mm x 69mm PAR, 5x 144x44 for the top par £5.98 per 1.5m, 5.5m of 44x69 for the front and side rails is around £12, again par. that works out at about £55 + 11 vat, £66 all in.

 

[Maverick81]

I have just rebuilt by my workshop. First job: Build benches/work tops Each around 3.5m long on each side of the room with various cupboards and storage underneath. I used 2x3 to build a timber frames - using half lap joints and screw & glue. 22mm OST tops and skinned with removable MDF on top of that. Solid as a rock.
Lesson learned: You need a bench to build a bench!
Most valuable tool to me on this whole project however.....was my plan/sketch/dimensions I created beforehand. For good results there's Google Sketch Up.......for everything else there's MasterCard.

 

[bugbear]

Lesson learned: You need a bench to build a bench!

Yes, but you can build a better bench using a worse bench. I made my first "proper" bench using a workmate.

BugBear

 

[nanscombe]

Like Maverick81 my workbench is made using half-lap joints, well they were supposed to be. :? I have improved over the last few years.

The top is made of B&Q blockboard and the legs from various pairs of 34mm timber dowelled and glued together. It's not the most sturdy of workbenches but it has served me for the last 4 years. On it I've managed to build a number of small cabinets and wooden staging for my greenhouse and, so far, six planters for my garden.

Nowhere near as good as a Roubo but it does what I need.

 

[John15]

I built my first bench from second-hand timber 40 years ago, 4 x2 m&t legs and rails and a 2" top. A couple of the joints were a little slack but with some screwing and strong bracing it has served me well, so I suggest you continue, bracing and screwing it strongly - it should last you for years. I am currently building a new one, 4x4 legs, 4x2 rails and a 40mm top and I will keep my old one with its original Record vice as a second bench.
Good luck
John

 

[bugbear]

Here's some beautiful bracing:

http://www.jasonl.com.au/Products/Repli ... mchair.cfm

BugBear