Bed project advice

[Arnold9801]

I will be making a replacement bed shortly and have the design in mind but need some views on the four corner posts.

A friend of mine is an excellent sprayer so we I will be making it out of tulip wood for it to be sprayed. The query I have relates to getting the four corner posts to measure approx 75-80mm square. Now I can glue them up from 4x pieces of approx 20mm thick timber and trim them down which is no problem. As they are being sprayed the glue lines will be very difficult to see....hopefully! The alternative method is to get the posts to the size I want (75-80mm square) from one solid piece. I have two worries with this option and that is that I could get splitting with them being in one piece or will get problems in obtaining tulip wood in this thickness baring in mind I live right down the "pointy end" of Cornwall where we are quite out of the way of the timber outlets that exist further up the line. Advice on this will be appreciated.

I may as well "kill two birds with one stone" whilst I am discussing the bed and get some ideas regarding the head/foot boards as well..

My next query relates to the head and foot boards. The main head board will be mdf with vertical spaced slats fixed at intervals to simulate a panelled board. Now, to fix/glue the headboard to my four corner posts (as mentioned above) I am thinking of morticing the internal side of the corner posts and inserting the midfield headboard into this housing. This will be quite a long mortice on the headboard posts compared with the footboard, but can be routed out.

Does this technique fit in with how some of you have fitted your head boards to the corner posts?

Look forward to your views and opinions.

Regards

Arnold9801

 

[rafezetter]

My bed corner posts were made from 4 sections of wood laminated, and I've had no issues with any form of movement - the wood had been well stored for over a year though. One thing I did notice was that you can still see the sections even after a dark stain applied, it's not terrible, but it's there, and you can't get away from it, so you'll have to decide whether to have clear front and laminated sides or vice versa.

There is another way to make one and that is to clad a central core with 4 outside faces, mitred at the corners, trickier to do if you're tablesaw isn't spot on, but visually more pleasing.

Unless you mean spraypainted, in which case... ignore all that

My head and foot boards have t&g central panels, with a solid top and bottom section. I did use mortices, made with a drill and finished by hand, but 2 smaller ones, top and bottom with the T&G floating in rebates and no mortice.

One thing I would say is look carefully at the various ways to attach the side rails to the posts - I bought a kit that uses a circular recess in the rail and a long threaded rod going thru the post and into the recess and a sort of nut type thing in the recess to pull the two together.

It wasn't strong enough to withstand the racking motion of some.... activites.... and blew out the corner where the recess was. If I was to make the bed again I would put a crossbeam in the head and foot sections the same height as the side rails and use good solid metal corner braces and bolts.

I would also make it a tad taller so I could use those storage boxes on wheels underneath, there's no real reason it needs to be be at just the height so it's comfortable to put shoes on.

I've seen many with a half height chest of drawers underneath or cupboards, you can never have enough storage

 

[Arnold9801]

Thank you Rafezetter.

You have helped. I did mean to spray paint, but still think the glue joints by laminating may still be visible. I was going to do it by having the joints on the sides to have a joint free face. However I like the idea of gluing four pieces mitred around a central core. I did think about making the posts from four pieces . Again, as it is to be spray painted any filler required for the slightest of gaps on the mitred corners wont be visible, but felt the downside of this option would present itself on the mortising of the head and foot boards as my option would have meant there was no central core but would have been hollow. To have a central core of wood laminated would avoid any issues here including movement/splitting later on and would be extremely strong.

I was thinking of using some very robust metal brackets that are concealed and are available specifically for making beds to connect the rails to the posts.

Again, many Thanks for your response, you've helped.

Regards

Arnold9801

 

[Steve Maskery]

Hi Arnold
What are you planning for the tops of your legs? I ask because if you are having any kind of cap or finialI would definitely recommend the fabrication approach. Poplar is very stable and so you have several fabrication options.

1. Laminate 4x20mm then veneer over the glue-lines with, say, a 3mm veneer.

2. Make the legs as a hollow mitred box and cap the top.

As for joining the bed rails, I always use a nut embedded in the leg, stub-tenos on the rail and a length of threaded rod housed in the end of the rail into the embedded nut. There is a pocket routed in the inside face of the rail to give me spanner-access to tighten the nut. It is a bit of work but it is not difficult to do and the end result is superbly strong and totally invisible. I do have some sketches somewhere, If I can find them, I'll post them up.

I have made several beds this way and I see no reason not to make my next one in the same manner. Given that you are gluing up your legs anyway, one way or another, this would be very suitable for you.

 

[AJB Temple]

if you look at cheap beds versus 5 star hotel quality beds, there is a big difference in the construction method. About 20 years ago I bought a top quality four poster made for the upscale hotel market. Solid 4? oak legs and very solid oak frame. It is held together with 5/8" hidden steel bolts - three per corner on the lower frame, seated into embedded nuts. All four corners are heavily reinforced.

You could have an orgy on this bed and it would not move or creak. It has been taken apart and moved at least seven times in that period and it is still rock solid. We have bought I think four beds as well since then, one of them expensive and also well made, but none of them have anything like the solidity of the oak four poster.

What I am saying, is overbuild the corners. These joints are put under considerable stress. Get this right and everything else is cosmetic.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Here is a sketch of how I make mine. I have drawn dowels in the sketch, but apart from one bed, I have always used stub tenons.

On this particular one (very low-budget) I used bolts with the head showing, but normally I would have an embedded nut in the leg.

 

[SteveF]

Hi Steve

neat idea
is there any risk of the infill being pulled out by "activity"
the last picture that you mentioned an embedded nut
do you mean turn the bolt around so head is in recess? and a T nut in the leg

Steve

 

[custard]

However I like the idea of gluing four pieces mitred around a central core.

Great in theory, a nightmare in practise. Without the skills and high end professional equipment to work to sub thou tolerances it'll be a gappy mess.

Most cabinet making workshops that I've worked in call this technique "cladding". It's commonly used where you you have some exquisite boards of a rare timber, but don't have it in thick enough sections for leg stock. So you make up leg cores, usually in Oak, then make some 3-5mm thick saw cut veneers from the show timber, and "clad" all four faces of the Oak leg core. It's an absolute last resort because it eats up so much time to produce a decent result. Even then, most workshops work sequentially around the leg, cladding with overlapping butt joints rather than mitres, then flushing off the excess one face at a time. Which for your purposes defeats the object of concealed glue lines.

Taking a step back, are you sure about these 75mm square leg posts? A common mistake of woodworking newbies is to massively over engineer components so they end up making clunky looking "Fred Flintstone Furniture". Plus the dimensions of a bed are dictated by the mattress, so you'll be jointing in the rails closer to the centre of the legs to avoid a big gap down the side of the mattress. Therefore much of that 75mm section is just wasted timber in that it's not allowing a stronger M&T and the excess will stick out further into the room so you'll just stub your toes on it. You could park a locomotive on 55 or 60mm square leg posts, 60mm Poplar is cheaper and more readily available, and it's perfectly adequate for bed joinery. Even with 55mm I'd be tempted to put a taper on the two inside faces to prevent it all looking too heavy.

http://www.slhardwoods.co.uk/products/s ... sawn-board

One final point, painted furniture looks great when it's first made, but every time a hoover bashes the corner of a square painted leg the paint chips off. A heavy round on the edges is a must.

Good luck!

 

[Steve Maskery]

is there any risk of the infill being pulled out by "activity"

Well I've never had any claims under warranty...

the last picture that you mentioned an embedded nut
do you mean turn the bolt around so head is in recess? and a T nut in the leg

I mean use a length of All-Thread instead of a bolt. One end goes into a nut embedded in the leg, another nut accessed from the pocket clamps it up.

I've found some more pictures.

The nut is embedded then a veneer glued over it. You can see a dark line between the body of the leg and the rear face. That is a layer of 3mm walnut veneer, which produces a stringing around the curve of the leg. After this pic was taken I then glued the same onto the front, over the nut.

As I say, I usually use stub tenons.

As you can see, the joint is invisible from the outside.

 

[monkeybiter]

Very stylish bed Steve, would you consider resurrecting any old WIPs or even better embark on a new project?

 

[Steve Maskery]

Thank you Mike.
Actually I do have it as a magazine article, but I really don't want to go there. That was my old life and the bedroom suite was one of the many excellent things I no longer have. It is hard enough looking at the photos. Time to move on.

A new bed is on my Tuit list. I currently have an electric bed. The mechanism and the mattress are both excellent, but the frame is just chipboard wrapped in Velour. Nice. So I shall make a nice one, one day, and, if I ever get my filming act together again, I shall film it, too.