Be thankful about budget if you hobby build with mostly or all hand tools...

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D_W

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For some reason, google served me an ad for the Jet 12" joiner planer (JJP-12 and JJP-H12).

I remember when these units came out, which really wasn't that long ago. They were $1,700 and people were a little nonplussed with them at the time (function, changeover time, whatever it may have been).

The ads say $4,129 plus at least sales tax and maybe freight (!!!!!!!!!!!)

The helical head version is $5,649.

you still get an extruded fence at that price.

About the same time these came out, I got a jet 18x bandsaw (was MAP of $1199, but the local saw shop had an extra and sold it to me for $1050 and delivered it free). There's a new version of this saw now that's a little different - more resaw and a taller fence. $3,199.

It wasn't that great of a bandsaw - top wheel was out of round - not the tire, but the actual wheel was out about 8 thousandths and I didn't realize what the problem was until I put a dial indicator on the wheel in situ when getting ready to sell it. I'd have fixed the issue with duct tape at the time. It would pound the guides out of set - I always used it where necessary, but the inaccuracy was annoying.

Being familiar with the quality level and wondering how much has actually changed - I doubt tolerances are much better - to be set back $8000 (with taxes and freight) to be able to joint and plane 12" wide boards and have a bandsaw that's just OK. Wow.

And, I felt like I was wasting money last year spending about $1500 on some metalworking tools.

Switching over to mostly hand tools 10 years ago was a great decision.
 

D_W

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It is across the board, David.

When I purchased a LN #51 shooting plane, it was $300 USD and the AUD was parity. Now the #51 is $1389 AUD in Australia.

Handtools have also sky rocketed.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I saw that on the Australia board. I think those planes were about $450 or so when they came out here in the states and have gone up to $650.

Unless something else has changed, most of the LN tools haven't risen as much. The LN 7 was $425 retail around 2010 when I bought one. I see the retail price has just recently gone up to $500.

jet and powermatic may be a special case here as a gaggle of the large tools were bought and sold, ending up with WMH who made a lot of tools in taiwan. I don't look at some of the current ones and see the same kind of look and wonder if they have gone to china on top of the price increase, or maybe even vietnam, etc, for some of the castings.

the price increases were steep - I could only speculate - when you buy a business in the US, it's an after tax proposition and WMH wouldn't have bought it to break even.

No clue if it's even advisable at this point to buy older euro machinery - as in, whether or not parts can be had.

Just my guessing, too, but the hand tool hobbies seem to have taken off in terms of tool buying (seeing actual work is a different story) with starry eyed people reading facebook groups, watching instagram, YT and reddit. I don't know a single younger person locally who has bought new power tools of the normite variety in the last 15 years.

So, yes, all has gone up. Jet has outpaced everyone by a large amount, though - they are doing laps around other people like a race car with the race sanctioned speed limiter removed. I suspect they're selling to a smaller market than 12 years ago.
 

thetyreman

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I don't know, if I was doing this for a living I'd definitely be looking at buying power tools, I am happy I bought a lot of my tools when I did and I have some tools I really regret selling now that would be worth a fortune, for example the lie neilsen no85 and the 102 low angle block plane.
 

heimlaga

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And still you can get a decent industrial quality spindle moulder for 300 euros....or find an industrial bandsaw in a heap at the scrapyard.
I really hope that theese price hikes will steer more people away for those mediocre China machines and make them appreciate secondhand machines.
 

D_W

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I don't know, if I was doing this for a living I'd definitely be looking at buying power tools, I am happy I bought a lot of my tools when I did and I have some tools I really regret selling now that would be worth a fortune, for example the lie neilsen no85 and the 102 low angle block plane.

I don't know of anyone making a first living (as in not living off of a pension) doing woodwork now. I met a retired maker here, but his clientele liked exotic veneers on a substrate along with integrated metal from what I can tell.

I'm thinking if this more from the hobbyists point of view.

Running any kind of business on property in a lot of areas in the states is a no-go unless it's just light crafting.

Also not sure where a JJP12 jointer would fit in any business, same with an 18" bandsaw or a cabinet tablesaw. Maybe somewhere in something more house-related (trim carpentry or cabinet installation). I know one person in our neighborhood (out of 350 houses) who has used a joiner - so there is a case there but it wasn't a big job.

I could think of about half a dozen things that I could make and sell low volume on the internet and the profit proposition would be a lot better without buying much additional equipment vs. trying to increase speed and then find the customers. They would provide bachelor's income, at least that's what I'd call it.
 

heimlaga

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I have always found it striking that the people in the self proclaimed "land of freedom" do submit to zoning laws so strict that both the parlament and the president's palace would be burned to the ground and every building inspector would be routed and hanged in the nearest tree if they tried to introduce something equally strict in Finland. A country famous for having few riots and even fewer lynchings.

Anyway around here one can find quite a few people douing woodwork as a sideline or part time business. A few doing it as a main job as well.
A 12 inch planer (jointer to an American) or an 18 inch bandsaw would be on the small side for many of us but some who focus mostly on smaller items find such machines sufficient. However quite a few hobbyists buy machines in that size bracket though they usually don't buy new due to the high costs.
Myself I have a 24" planer/thicknesser combination and a 24" bandsaw in my part time workshop. My next paid project comin in will be a 16 or 17 foot motorboat in need of a total reframing and a partially new deck.

Around here the only way of turning a profit in this trade is to tool up for reasonably efficient production.
 

Phil Pascoe

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I have always found it striking that the people in the self proclaimed "land of freedom" do submit to zoning laws so strict that both the parlament and the president's palace would be burned to the ground and every building inspector would be routed and hanged in the nearest tree if they tried to introduce something equally strict in Finland ...

:ROFLMAO:
 

D_W

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I have always found it striking that the people in the self proclaimed "land of freedom" do submit to zoning laws so strict that both the parlament and the president's palace would be burned to the ground and every building inspector would be routed and hanged in the nearest tree if they tried to introduce something equally strict in Finland. A country famous for having few riots and even fewer lynchings.

Anyway around here one can find quite a few people douing woodwork as a sideline or part time business. A few doing it as a main job as well.
A 12 inch planer (jointer to an American) or an 18 inch bandsaw would be on the small side for many of us but some who focus mostly on smaller items find such machines sufficient. However quite a few hobbyists buy machines in that size bracket though they usually don't buy new due to the high costs.
Myself I have a 24" planer/thicknesser combination and a 24" bandsaw in my part time workshop. My next paid project comin in will be a 16 or 17 foot motorboat in need of a total reframing and a partially new deck.

Around here the only way of turning a profit in this trade is to tool up for reasonably efficient production.

it depends on where you live. I live in a development in the suburbs. If I lived a couple of turns away, it would be fine to operate a commercial business and even have a small building as a contractor showroom in a lot of areas.

But if I were to decide i'd run a full scale commercial woodworking business (with associated noise) in a development with visiting customers, it wouldn't work out well. that's much different than having the tools and woodworking for pleasure - noise and all - that'd be OK where I live. Maybe more tightly controlled by binding agreement in expensive areas.

In rural areas, I'm sure the zoning is more relaxed here than it is in finland. My parents live in a semi-rural area and everything in their road is residential. The entire area is still zoned commercial because the residents don't care much for restrictions. sometimes it backfires (neighbor over the hill was a welder - filled his property with junk and it had to get pretty bad before the local rules afforded any enforcement other than telling him that all of the junk had to be behind his house and not in front of it).

In really rural areas, it's far more lax than that.
 

Jameshow

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I have always found it striking that the people in the self proclaimed "land of freedom" do submit to zoning laws so strict that both the parlament and the president's palace would be burned to the ground and every building inspector would be routed and hanged in the nearest tree if they tried to introduce something equally strict in Finland. A country famous for having few riots and even fewer lynchings.

Anyway around here one can find quite a few people douing woodwork as a sideline or part time business. A few doing it as a main job as well.
A 12 inch planer (jointer to an American) or an 18 inch bandsaw would be on the small side for many of us but some who focus mostly on smaller items find such machines sufficient. However quite a few hobbyists buy machines in that size bracket though they usually don't buy new due to the high costs.
Myself I have a 24" planer/thicknesser combination and a 24" bandsaw in my part time workshop. My next paid project comin in will be a 16 or 17 foot motorboat in need of a total reframing and a partially new deck.

Around here the only way of turning a profit in this trade is to tool up for reasonably efficient production.

The USA is a place of contradictions full stop!!
 

D_W

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The USA is a place of contradictions full stop!!

Varies quite a bit by locale. At some point, I got the lecture on here about how unsafe the US is from someone who lived in center city Philadelphia.

It is definitely unsafe.

Most of the geography of the united states (outside of cities and suburbs, especially in states in the south and central US) would not be tolerable for anyone used to the orderliness of England and Europe (lack of zoning, lack of regulatory intervention, etc).

Contrast that with high dollar suburbs around NY, LA or DC - you wouldn't want to try to do anything in any of them other than buy a cookie cutter house and sleep in it. Anything else would be no-go.
 
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