• We invite you to join UKWorkshop.
    Members can turn off viewing Ads!

Bandsaw questions

UKworkshop.co.uk

Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:

bp122

Expert at Jibber-Jabber
Joined
20 Aug 2019
Messages
610
Reaction score
209
Location
Haddenham
Hello all,

1. In a Bandsaw-Planer combo setup without a thicknesser, how does one go about achieving straightness and flatness on faces #3 and #4, where faces #1 and #2 are done on the planer?

2. Bandsaw vs Table saw – dust management (I know the volume is directly proportional to the kerf width, but the question is which one is messier after a cut – assuming reasonable quality blade and feed)

3.Table saw gives a reasonable finish upon cross cutting small bits (let us say 20mm x 20mm x 20mm block) – How does one get the same finish with just bandsaw-planer combo (without a mitre saw)?

4. What is the relationship between the size of bandsaw (10", 12", 14" etc) to the max height of cut (if there is such a thing)?. Reason I ask is because not everyone in the used market lists the height (I think I mean depth) of cut.


I am purely asking from a point of not knowing, and don’t mean to ruffle feathers on insult anyone.

Cheers.
 

Ttrees

Iroko loco!
Joined
18 Nov 2012
Messages
2,806
Reaction score
242
Location
In me workshop
The bandsaw is about 90 percent less dusty than a tablesaw.
If you want a clean crosscut, then the shooting board is used afterwards.

A tablesaw will produce a very neat cut with a suitable and good blade..
You will get decent results if you make a ZCI table insert and backer board, or a crosscut sled, Zero clearance insert that is.

Pretty much all bandsaws in the size you mention have a huge capacity, in regards resaw height, but that dosen't mean you can use the machine for cutting at full depth.
You may get away with resawing at max capacity if your only cutting say 10" long boards, with a brand new blade you might get 10 slices before things go awry.
But if you were cutting foam then the resaw capacity makes sense, for the given machine.
Most bandsaws go by the wheel size and not capacity, apart from the new gen Italian industrial machines like SCM/Minimax.

Ideally you want to match a blade to the cut, and that would mean you'd need a wider blade than the machine can tension, if you were to go resawing , the tooth count would be less and the teeth bigger.
You might not see a 2TPI blade on a narrow blade as the teeth would be wider than the band.
I'd say that for a 3/4" blade then the machine would need to weigh about 200kg for the frame not to bend, or tension system not to fail.
Weight is about the best guideline to spot a good machine.
Many manufacturers will state that the saw can handle large blades, don't take their word for it.
Beware of those honeymoon reviews too!

If you go above 2 hp and have only 13 amp household sockets then you might want to seek 3 phase (with dual voltage motor which will state 240v on the MOTOR nameplate, not the machine badge)
You can run 3 phase 3 hp motors, no bother with a hundred quid VFD on household leccy, as you can adjust the startup time with the push of a button to suit your supply.
The starting load with single phase motors is what is really consumptive on your supply, and may trip your breaker if over 2 hp.
A VFD/inverter (100 quid) has stored energy and is not an issue to start on 13 amp, and will use about the same juice as my aging laptop, the wheel on the meter goes very slow compared to the kettle.

Three phase machines are half the price of single, and secondhand is half the price of new, so that is how you get a real good machine for a bargain.
I have a 24" ACM machine got for 500 euros, and find it much less dusty than the 20" Chinese machine, as the cabinet is much larger than the other,
I have no dust extraction but the saw will house the dust, and the table larger on some like mine, so you aren't getting dusty being further away from the cut.

I suggest you not look for reviews by manufacturers as they won't show the full cut, just the start and the end of the cut.
This is because the thrust guide will be screaming horribly on a smaller machine, and you would have to replace thrust guides often.

If you get a large machine and use a wide blade, the bade will have enough beam tension not to need anything more than the thrust, and the machine will be so much quieter as the blade wont be constantly wearing away on the thrust.

One reason many folk might not mention the resaw capacity is they don't want you sending back the machine because it wont cut at that depth.

there is not any difference in footprint between a smaller machine with splayed legs and a floor standing 20"saw.
Might as well get a good'un fir yourself
All the best
Tom
 

Cabinetman

Established Member
Joined
5 Jan 2017
Messages
1,966
Reaction score
1,010
Location
lincolnshire Wolds
Trees, I would have to disagree with your first sentence that a tablesaw is 90% dustier than a bandsaw, I’m not saying your statement is incorrect for your equipment, in my case virtually no dust from the tablesaw but then I have suction on the guard as well as in the case, so basically it’s all down to dust extraction. Ian
PS I would definitely agree with you about three-phase secondhand being a wonderful bargain compared to new – usually more flimsy equipment .
 

bp122

Expert at Jibber-Jabber
Joined
20 Aug 2019
Messages
610
Reaction score
209
Location
Haddenham
The bandsaw is about 90 percent less dusty than a tablesaw.
If you want a clean crosscut, then the shooting board is used afterwards.

A tablesaw will produce a very neat cut with a suitable and good blade..
You will get decent results if you make a ZCI table insert and backer board, or a crosscut sled, Zero clearance insert that is.

Pretty much all bandsaws in the size you mention have a huge capacity, in regards resaw height, but that dosen't mean you can use the machine for cutting at full depth.
You may get away with resawing at max capacity if your only cutting say 10" long boards, with a brand new blade you might get 10 slices before things go awry.
But if you were cutting foam then the resaw capacity makes sense, for the given machine.
Most bandsaws go by the wheel size and not capacity, apart from the new gen Italian industrial machines like SCM/Minimax.

Ideally you want to match a blade to the cut, and that would mean you'd need a wider blade than the machine can tension, if you were to go resawing , the tooth count would be less and the teeth bigger.
You might not see a 2TPI blade on a narrow blade as the teeth would be wider than the band.
I'd say that for a 3/4" blade then the machine would need to weigh about 200kg for the frame not to bend, or tension system not to fail.
Weight is about the best guideline to spot a good machine.
Many manufacturers will state that the saw can handle large blades, don't take their word for it.
Beware of those honeymoon reviews too!

If you go above 2 hp and have only 13 amp household sockets then you might want to seek 3 phase (with dual voltage motor which will state 240v on the MOTOR nameplate, not the machine badge)
You can run 3 phase 3 hp motors, no bother with a hundred quid VFD on household leccy, as you can adjust the startup time with the push of a button to suit your supply.
The starting load with single phase motors is what is really consumptive on your supply, and may trip your breaker if over 2 hp.
A VFD/inverter (100 quid) has stored energy and is not an issue to start on 13 amp, and will use about the same juice as my aging laptop, the wheel on the meter goes very slow compared to the kettle.

Three phase machines are half the price of single, and secondhand is half the price of new, so that is how you get a real good machine for a bargain.
I have a 24" ACM machine got for 500 euros, and find it much less dusty than the 20" Chinese machine, as the cabinet is much larger than the other,
I have no dust extraction but the saw will house the dust, and the table larger on some like mine, so you aren't getting dusty being further away from the cut.

I suggest you not look for reviews by manufacturers as they won't show the full cut, just the start and the end of the cut.
This is because the thrust guide will be screaming horribly on a smaller machine, and you would have to replace thrust guides often.

If you get a large machine and use a wide blade, the bade will have enough beam tension not to need anything more than the thrust, and the machine will be so much quieter as the blade wont be constantly wearing away on the thrust.

One reason many folk might not mention the resaw capacity is they don't want you sending back the machine because it wont cut at that depth.

there is not any difference in footprint between a smaller machine with splayed legs and a floor standing 20"saw.
Might as well get a good'un fir yourself
All the best
Tom
Thank you for a comprehensive response, Tom.
This explains the things I hadn't thought to ask. It is like they say, people don't know what they don't know!

This does clear things up a lot for me. I am not actively looking for one at the moment, but wouldn't want to rush when I see a nice large bandsaw for a bargain and not know enough about it to buy it or worse, get the wrong one based on the initial burst of excitement and regret it deeply later.

This also firms up what other people have said in the past threads about buying used, but thank you for clarifying the electrical issue with 1 phase vs 3 phase. Does this apply to a 3-phase Table saw or a planer thicknesser as well?
 

Ttrees

Iroko loco!
Joined
18 Nov 2012
Messages
2,806
Reaction score
242
Location
In me workshop
Hello again
I must admit I have only have experience and was comparing my bandsaw with my 12" Startrite tilt arbor tablesaw which also has a 3 horse motor (3 phase) and works well on 13a plug with the same VFD.
I have no dust extraction and I don't use the TS all that often.
I usually only use it for a half hour or probably more at times, and put on overalls when I do, and don't enter the shed for an hour or more afterwards.
I will say that I have never got sawdust covering my back using the bandsaw that I use frequently.

I don't have a planer or thicknesser, nor have I ever used one either,
but if you want one then this gets more complicated.
You would probably need 16 amp sockets for the equivalent class of machine.
Most of these have two motors, one for the cutter head and one smaller one for the feed rollers.
I have curiosity on seeing someone using a VFD/inverter for these, but never seen
the final result, though I get the impression that it could be done.
Beyond the scope of what little knowledge I have as yet.

You could run a surface planer no bother as it has only one motor.
I cannot say the same for thicknessers.
You can probably run one of those lunchbox thicknessers from the household plug
but these do not have quiet induction motors, and instead have universal motors which make an awful racket.

I don't have extraction so if that is a concern to you then it might be worth looking in to getting 16a (blue plug) which might mean getting a smaller fusebox in the shed if not there already.
I used the cooker cable in the granny flat at the folks, temporally for some time and it truly was a pain in the rear end to unplug and worry about getting the cable damaged.
It was nice to get that sorted with a CU (consumer unit) fusebox/breaker
in the shed.

Dust is a concern to your health, and depending on what you are doing it might be worth considering having an extractor with pleated filter.
Bill Pentz is a name you might stumble across whilst reading about dust extraction.
His website is very dated and its very very technical.
To summarize he regards those bag type extractors as more danger than their worth, as they give a false sense of clean air, when infact they filter the finest dust back out into the air, the stuff that you will breath in.

I try not to be in the shed if the dust is in the air.
My only air monitor is vision, looking for dust in the air with raking light.
My planer thicknesser is my hand planes, my uber flat bench and a panel guage.

To joke about Rob Cosman says he has never coughed a shaving.

I would consider getting a PT and leccy upgrade if I were to start milling green timber, and that whole kettle of fish that comes with it.
Or if I were to start a business, but for a hobby use I don't see the point.

Going back to the bandsaw again, there's not much to them
Wheel bearings a fiver each, tires can be dressed if not cracked rubber, or changed out, guides can be a bit more expensive for larger machines though, but as I was saying if you go for a bigger machine then guides are like stabilizers for a bicycle,
Using a 3/4" blade that is tensioned correctly,
one thrust guide will do the job compared to a lighter machine which can't tension a decent (gauge) blade.
If you go for a smaller machine on ebay/gumtree it will likely be similarly priced or even dearer than a larger machine, but it will need all or most of the guides in running order to get the same results, as there would be much lesser beam tension on a narrower and thinner gauge blade.

Make sure you seek out a machine with dual voltage motor if you see a bargain locally.
Bob Minchin, AKA Myfordman on this forum has an excellent google document on induction motors and VFD's.
Might be a bit heavy reading unless you decide what's for you.

I have no idea on what work you wish to make.
Either way a bigger bandsaw makes sense, and small ones are only glorified scroll saws for curve cutting to me.

All the best
Tom
 

johnnyb

Established Member
Joined
13 Nov 2006
Messages
1,396
Reaction score
192
Location
Biddulph staffs
forget dust as that's down to the individual machine/extractor. a table saw is the best for dimensioning timber and boards(mdf). for roughish work its probably all you need. bandsaw is a bit more...certain stuff is easier and safer on straight cuts but curved cuts are impossible on a table saw as are stopped cuts.
 
Top