Azebiki ?

[Sheffield Tony]

I am not really a Japanese tool user; I have a couple of Japanese folding saws which work well for green wood, otherwise I am a western style saw user. But - I was looking at an article about Japanese saws in Fine Woodworking, and the one that stood out to me was the Azebiki - looks just the ticket for cutting housings and maybe sliding dovetails by hand, where the deeper style of Japanese tooth might clog less than a western saw, and the handle doesn't get in the way as it does with some of my (probably several times re-sharpened) backsaws.

Anyone use one for this ? Recommend one - in general, or a specific make ?

 

[Trafalgar]

Actually if you can find one a Western flooring hand saw would work even better I'm thinking. They're bigger but have the same curved toothline that allows you to start a cut in the middle of a board or panel.

 

[rafezetter]

Actually if you can find one a Western flooring hand saw would work even better I'm thinking. They're bigger but have the same curved toothline that allows you to start a cut in the middle of a board or panel.

With enough cheap dovetails and tenon saws kicking about - couldn't you reshape one of those and cut new teeth to suit?

 

[Trafalgar]

Maybe. Here's what one looks like unhandled. This is not my auction:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-18-Floo ... 2c9febd5ae

Spear and Jackson's version:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-ODD-SMA ... 1c570ea4ac

Big one by Disston:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1900-era-HENRY- ... 488274b5fa

 

[Downwindtracker2]

Here on the BC coast, we had a tradition of Japanese wooden boat building, or we did until they were sent off to concentration camps during the war. In the summer of 1970 I worked up north in a salmon cannery, to pay for my university tuition fees. My cousin was able to borrow a ex-fishing boat for the summer. During one of his attempts at docking, he hit a piling and put a hole in the plywood. We got the boat repaired in the company facilities , I think a couple of bottles of rye changed hands. The carpenter was a young native fellow, our age. The tool he used to cut out the damage in a very difficult place was a Azebiki .

 

[Fat ferret]

I have the s and j floorboard saw. Pretty coarse at 7tpi but good for making hatches in... floorboards!

Not what you want for cutting joints though.

 

[D_W]

I am not really a Japanese tool user; I have a couple of Japanese folding saws which work well for green wood, otherwise I am a western style saw user. But - I was looking at an article about Japanese saws in Fine Woodworking, and the one that stood out to me was the Azebiki - looks just the ticket for cutting housings and maybe sliding dovetails by hand, where the deeper style of Japanese tooth might clog less than a western saw, and the handle doesn't get in the way as it does with some of my (probably several times re-sharpened) backsaws.

Anyone use one for this ? Recommend one - in general, or a specific make ?

I have only used one, because it's all I've needed for stopped dados, etc. It is the cheapest one (azebiki) that we can get here in the states, about $25. I'd hesitate to spend any more than that unless you're a tool buff. It works well, I've cut dozens with mine and it cuts the same as it did when I first got it. The teeth are aggressive enough that if used with a little bit of force on the first pull (as in one hand holding the plate against a batten and with some down pressure and the other pulling the saw) , they make a good clean crisp line, and the rest of the sawing can be done freely. I don't know how deep the teeth are, but the saw doesn't bind in a 3/8"+ deep cut, and i know the teeth aren't that tall.

You can touch up the teeth on them if you'd ever want to, but it will take a lot of sawing to get to that point. the crosscut teeth are tall and narrow and should continue to cut better than a blunt tooth even as they dull a little bit.

I'd vote for cheap, also because you can bind the saw a little on your first few cuts if you try to get too quick and harsh in a deep cut, and you'd hate to have a nice saw and do that as the plates aren't always as flexible as the less expensive saws.

 

[Carl P]

Thought this might interest you - it's a 7" 16tpi breasted backsaw that I got at a carboot a little while ago, I assume the breasting was done by the user as it's not quite regular enough to be manufactured that way. It's by George Ibbotson Ltd and has the ministry arrow dated 1943. The build is quite robust with a thick plate and the saw is heavier than it looks.

Cheerio,

Carl

 

[Sheffield Tony]

I was expecting that there might be more Japanese tool enthusiasts lurking around here !

The floorboard saw does look a bit big for the sort of things I had in mind. I was looking at the cheaper (£20-30) Azebiki from Classic hand tools or some of the German on-line stores (to enjoy the euro rate !) - I might put one on my Christmas list. I quite like the look of that breasted gent's saw though - that gets me thinking that I might be able to make one of those. I have some suitable saw plate, brass sheet and a bit of elm for a handle. Hmm.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[D_W]

The inexpensive one that classic hand tools is the same one as I have. I see some places have several sizes. Mine's 80mm, and I wouldn't want smaller.

Making your own out of a junk saw or scrap parts is cheaper, of course, but I've made other saws intended to cut kerfs or work a housing and I hate to admit it but they don't work as well for this kind of work.

At the same time, unless one is cutting marshmallow wood, I can't see a very expensive azebiki working much or any better (presuming you work a lot of stuff in medium hardwoods, etc). Much of the nuttiness in super tuned (i hate that term) japanese tools seems to be aimed at doing extremely clean work in extremely extremely soft woods, stuff that we don't use often, and their cheapie tools are often better for western work in hardwoods, especially for novice users. Most of the stuff that's sold to us, a smith over there wouldn't recommend, anyway. A friend had a rip saw commissioned for himself, hand made, when I challenged him and others to come up with a rip saw that would rip as fast as we can with a common western rip saw. It cost almost 4 figures, and it was a beautiful saw. Not surprisingly, it was tempered less hard than a lot of saws made for hardwood, and the teeth designed stronger and with less rake.

Kind of makes me think a lot of the multi-hundred dollar easy-to-break tools aren't a very good substitute for western woodworking, just as a norris infill isn't the best thing in the world for a piece of paulownia.

 

[Downwindtracker2]

In the Lee Valley catalogue, the write up on Azebiki is almost a direct quote from when I wrote Lee Valley in the late '70s or early '80 asking them to carry it.