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Mike.C

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Hi,

I am going to install a full dust extraction system in my workshop but i need some advice before i go ahead and buy the parts.

First of all, part of the system is going to be an air cleaner, you know the type that you hang from the ceiling.
The main manufacturer appears to be Microclene and then i have found one made by Dakota (sold by Rutlands) and a few badged by Axminster/Jet. Has anyone got one of these?

What little i have found written about this product appears to state that you should be looking for a machine that will clean the air in your workshop 10 times an hour. Is this about right?
Also how do you work out what machine is right for your workshop? Mine is 261/2ft x 13ft.
Well i have actually got another one of the same size above this but as all of the sanding, routing and my machines are down below i do not need one up there.

I have been told that metal ducting is much better then plastic is this correct?
Axminster sell metal ducting but when you look at how much i am going to need it get bit expensive. Does anyone know of another dealer whos prices are better?

I have got two dust extractors. One is the Scheppach HA2600 and the other is the Elektra Beckum 1000, and i was thinking of connecting the two of these to one 100mm Y section and then connecting this to the 100mm ducting that will be running around the shop, would this work? Or would i be better off just getting a bigger extractor? If so can anyone recommend one?

To be perfectly honest i have never really been happy with these two as soon after you clean it the filter on top of the both of them blocks up again.

Thanks in advance

Mike.C
 

gidon

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Hi Mike
I have the Microclene 400 in my 14'x8' workshop:
http://www.microclene.com.au/mc400.htm
It does a good job - I have it on for a hour or two every evening (fitted it to a timer switch) and the workshop is always dust free when I go in. And the filter is full of dust - so it must be doing something.
My only criticism is that it is a little louder than I would like. But you get used to it.
That above site gives recommendations on suitable products for different sized workshops.
The rest of my DE requirements are met but a Scheppach drum extractor (which also handles fine dust) and a Karcher vac for my hand power tools.
Cheers
Gidon[/url]
 

Noel

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Maybe off base here but I've never felt the need for an air filter hanging from above. Surely if your workshop air is loaded with dust you got big problems. Look at this way - most, if not all dust (especially the 2 micron and below variety) is generated at waist level be it sanding, cutting MDF etc on the BS or TS or whatever, and then is thrown into the atmosphere, past your mouth and nose and then goes walkabout all over the shop and eventually settles everywhere. OK, if you have a air filter / cleaner there'll be less residual dust. Somehow I think a better idea is to capture the dust at source. Efficient extraction on all machines and a properly filtered shop vac when sanding, routing etc surely precludes the dubious need for an overhead filter.
JMHO
Rgds
Noel
PS After working in the shop one evening go back in after 10 or 15 mins, leave the lights off and shine a torch, should give you some idea of the airborne particulates situation.
 

Scrit

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Noely":39vfdi5z said:
I've never felt the need for an air filter hanging from above. Surely if your workshop air is loaded with dust you got big problems...... Somehow I think a better idea is to capture the dust at source......
With you on that one Noely, if you think about this another way, before the dust-laden air actually reaches the air filter you've probably already filtered at least some of it through your lungs, your mouth normally being somewhere the level of the machine and the filter.

Scrit
 

Philly

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Hey All,
I've got a Microclene 1000 hanging in my double garage and it was great (though not glamorous) purchase. You may not think it worthwhile, but it makes a significant difference to the quality of the air. (i.e. you don't have to spend so long each evening picking dust out of your nose!!) I do a lot of my woodworking in the evenings and even though I have a dust extractor it doesnt collect a 100% of the dust and you can see it floating in the air when you look at the lights. I only turn it on when i'm using machinery ( hand planing doesnt seem to produce much dust!) but it really is worth the investment-after all, your health is pretty important.
regards,
Philly
 

Noel

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Philly wrote
"You may not think it worthwhile, but it makes a significant difference to the quality of the air"

I think by that time the nag has well and truely done a runner...

Rgds

Noel
 

Philly

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Fellow WW'ers,
my recipe for dust free lungs;

when machinery is about to be used (apart from the kettle....)
1: switch on air filter.
2: connect dust extractor to machine and switch on.
3: pop on face mask ( and not forgeting your safety glasses!)

machine away.
when finished and air is clear, switch it all off.

When i started out on the WW path (not all that long ago), a table saw or router was more important to me than boring items like a dust extractor. But when you finally get one, you wonder how you ever managed without one!
regards,
Philly :roll:
 

gidon

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Scrit":234l4x3h said:
With you on that one Noely, if you think about this another way, before the dust-laden air actually reaches the air filter you've probably already filtered at least some of it through your lungs, your mouth normally being somewhere the level of the machine and the filter.
Scrit
But I would hope the machine cycles air quicker than we do! Of course some dust will still enter your lungs. But no DE system is 100% effective.

And for me it's not so much when I'm working in the workshop, it's when I return. That dust used to linger for sometime in my small workshop - now it's gone when I return.

Noely - I'm sure it's better to capture the dust at source. But you won't get all of it - I'm pretty certain of that.

Cheers

Gidon
 

Mike.C

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Hi All,

This is exactly the same problem i have come up against all over the internet, people just can't agree. What little there is out there is confusing because of the different views. I mean take these air cleaners either they work or they don't.

The problem is when Noely puts it like that he is 100% right, it does go right passed (and some goes up) your nose before it goes walkabout. But then again Phily and Scrit have one of these machines so they must know what they are talking about. But who do you take notice of?

I think Noely hit the nail on the head when he said to capture the dust at source. But can anyone tell me what is the most efficient dust extraction system for my machines?

If i can capture most of the dust at source and then let an air cleaner deal with the rest i will be a happy man.

By the way Midnight that Bill Pentz website sure brings it home to you what a problem dust really is to our lungs.

Cheers

Mike.C
 

Scrit

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Mike

Nope, don't have one of the auxiliary filters at all. They are just too small for anything approaching a reasonable-sized workshop the cost of buying (or for that matter running) multiples is just too great. I depend on heavy DX at source - and as you've already found Bill Pentz's site, you really have found the "Oracle" on the subject, so to speak. Nevertheless I still worry about the effects of breathing the dust, and a batch of mahogany at the start of this year caused me to have respiratory problems and has made me even more cautious. I doubt that there is any one solution to this problem - the fact that DX seems to be a black art doesn't really help.

Scrit
 

CYC

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Do you wear a mask then ? Are they any good. I know they certainly are unconfortable!
 

Scrit

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Frequently, not so bad and yes (especially if wearing glasses and ear defenders as well)
 

Neil

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Does anyone have one of these battery-powered respirators (e.g the Trend Airshield, Axminster p. 7.04) I noticed that the guy on Cutting Edge Woodworker used one a lot. Its certainly pretty expensive but I guess if it avoids problems like that which Scrit had with the mahogany it would be worth it. Also avoids the problem I always have with the safety specs steaming up when using an ordinary mask.

NeilCFD (Changed from Neil to avoid confusion with Newbie_Neil)
 

Mike.C

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Hi All,

Yes Neil i have got one of those battery powered respirators for all the good it is now. You see i have the Racal Airlite which was great until about a year later 3M took over making them from Racal and soon after discontinued them and the spare parts. So i have an excellent respirator (costing £130) that is completely useless because 3M stopped producing the filters etc.
Some company did buy up all the spare parts from 3M but they have all gone now.

That aside if you are in the market for one of these respirators then i would recommend the Trend one, because as well as keeping the dust from entering you nose it also blows cool air across your face which in a hot workshop is great.

Scrit what does DX stand for?

Thanks

Mike.C
 

Scrit

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DX = Dust extraction/extractor

Sorry for the confusion :oops:

Scrit
 

Mike.C

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Hi,

Gidon i forgot to ask what are them drum extractors like? Am i correct in saying that these are the ones that look about the size of a dust bin and have no visable filter on the outside, Axminster calls theirs the WVI, WV2 and WV100?
Are these better then the type i have eg; Scheppach HA 2600?

Andy (King) has Good Woodworking done any tests on these air cleaners in the past?

Thanks Scrit, dust extraction heh, what a dip stick i am.
 

gidon

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Hi Mike
Yep this one is very similiar to the Axminster ones. The bin's a little larger I think. It handles my p/t and table saw ok. Although when thicknessing a lot of wood - I do have to empy it a fair bit. I don't really have room for anything bigger, and I couldn't get a definitive answer on whether the big machines handles fine dust. Plus - banging into one of those large dust bags (easily done in a small workshop!) apparently causes dust to fly everywhere! It's hard to say whether they are better or worse. I'll let the experts fill you in ... It suits my requirements though. And Andy King has a similiar set up and seems to find it ok too. He did do an article on DE for his own workshop which is worth a read if you can get hold of a copy.
It is a minefield DE - my system works ok for me for my sized workshop. But perhaps wouldn't suit others.
Hope that help a bit.
Cheers
Gidon
 

Midnight

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DX is an abbreviation for Dust eXtraction....

Mike, I'm with you re the confusing and often contradictory information out there; it astonished me that there isn't any guidelines for this available from HSE either, only recommendations.
My shop isn't big enough for a full monty hard piped system, but even then, I try to employ the best DX that my limited finds allows.
I'm all in favour of 100% extraction at source, just point me at the tool / extractor combination that can give me a lifetime guarantee to that effect and I'll have an order placed for them within 24hours.
short of that, I'm leaning toward the multi layered approach; extract as much as I can at source, have a ceiling mounted filter running whenever I'm in the shop and wear a dust mask whenever I'm sanding. If there's a better way to do it short of never using the tools at all.......I'd love to hear it....
just my tuppence worth
 

Scrit

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Ermmm.... Stick with hand tools? (Ask Alf for details) :wink:
 
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