Axminster Craft vs Trade

[SkyBlue63]

Hi All
I'm looking at the Axi 118CE but can't get my head around the 100hrs a year for the craft range that's silly small for a hobbyist especially if planning on spending £650 at least.
What are they saying that is most likely to fail.
I've got the Charnwood W790 but it's got the bag not cartridge and can't find one that fits, the 790 is a trade rated version. The W796 is the new version but out of stock. I use mine on lathe, T/S, Bandsaw and P/T. I like the idea of the 118CE but it's the craft hours that's making me wary.

Thoughts comments please.
Thanks
Geoff

 

[Doug B]

They’re basically saying the working components the machine is made from have a life span of 100 hours or less a year, so if you use your machine for more than 2 hours a week you need something better.

Personally I’ve always thought of it as a get out for producing expensive carp others will say it’s them being honest about their products & giving you the information you need to guide your choice, either way it sounds like you need a more robust extractor.

 

[RichardG]

No idea how Axminster can police this if it goes wrong during the guarantee period but it doesn't seem fair use to me. Fortunately there are a lot of manufacturers who have no such limits and in fact rate their products for trade use at similar prices so buy from someone else.

 

[Myfordman]

Buy the nearest fit commonly available filter and make an adaptor to fit your machine. It’s not rocket science surely?

 

[SkyBlue63]

Thanks for the comments. 100hrs a year for something that is £650 is pretty poor to say the least.
I've decided to wait for the W796 to come back into stock.

 

[Doug71]

I always think it's best to have a good quality extractor as it normally spends longer running than other machines. You might use your table saw for a while then your planer etc but regardless of which machine you are using the extractor is always running.

100hrs a year for something that is £650 is pretty poor to say the least.

Totally agree.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

As far as I am aware it is not feasible to build (bearings, motors, casings, filters, controls etc) a machine which will work fine up to 99 hours and then fall over when you get to 101.

I would personally treat it as more of a guide to differentiate machines that are suitable for:

• the hobby market where (typically) the user has a full time job and other distractions (family, kids etc). Machine likely to be used some evenings and weekends, sometimes 6 hours, often 1 or 2. Sometimes unused for 2 weeks whilst on holiday.
• the trade market where the machine may be in use every (week) day for several hours.

Only you know your expected use pattern.

 

[MikeK]

I was curious, so I searched the Axminster website looking for a policy reference that limited the Craft series machines to no more than 100 hours per year. I couldn't find anything on the site resembling a policy, standard, or regulation that supported this claim. The best I could find was the machine classification that describes the differences between the Axminster Model Engineer Series (Craft), Axminster Engineer Series (Trade), and Axminster Industrial Series, but these explanations do not include annual usage limits.

Model Engineering Series (Craft):
Covered by the Axminster 3 year Guarantee, these products are designed and intended to be used in the home for light work and not for continuous use. Must be maintained and serviced in line with our schedule. Guarantee is void when used for business or education purposes.

Engineering Series (Trade):
Covered by the Axminster 3 year Guarantee, these products are designed and intended to be used by businesses with occasional periods of continuous work. Must be regularly maintained and serviced annually. Guarantee is void when used for industrial use or as part of a production line.

Industrial Series:
Covered by the Axminster 3 year Guarantee, these products are designed and intended for workshop use with occasional extended periods of heavy, continuous work. Must be regularly maintained and serviced annually. Guarantee is void if not serviced annually and regularly maintained.

I could not find any reference in the Axminster Terms and Conditions that identifies the time limit for each category of tool classification. I downloaded the AC118CE Cyclone Extractor Manual from the Axminster site, and there is no mention in the manual about time limits.

The only place I could find any link between time and series was an article by Mark Smale titled "An Insight In To The Trade Series Range" published on 12 September 2017. This article is in the "Insights" section of the Axminster knowledge website and is described as "Writers corner; comments, ideas and the inner workings of the Axminster bloggers." I would not mistake a blogger's comment as corporate policy, even if the blogger is an employee of the company. If the 100 hours per year was an enforceable limit, then it should be in the equipment manual, Terms and Conditions, or the product guarantee.

 

[Doug71]

@MikeK people are probably referring to this reply from Axminster which is in the Q&A on the Axminster website page of the extractor in question.



Axminster Staff
· 2 years ago

Hello
I can confirm that this extractor can be used to extract from planer thicknessers, belt sanders and other machines which have a dust outlet of 73mm and above, if you reduce it outlet below this size to what you would find on on track saw or other power tools it will not sufficiently extract.
As this is part of our Craft range it is designed for the home hobbyist user for 1-2 hours per week usage or 100 hours annually. This is not classed as an M Class vacuum.
Scott
Specialist Sales Advisor

 

[TRITON]

I say what the hell. Its a good price and it will likely last as well as any.
I've their craft sawbench(the older one) and i certainly havent found a problem with it or it being any less and not up to the job over these last 7 or so years of use.
An extractor isnt a saw, it wont be under the same strain, and i reckon will tick along nicely, and the only real difference will be a less powerful motor and thinner gauge steel. Less robust construction, but as it sits pretty much unmolested, theres not a lot can go wrong.
Only real differences are the non industrially rated motor, and its not like one of those in that it wont be switched on at 8am and switched off at 5pm.
The capacity will be less and the airflow not as strong as the 1200 or 2k extractor. The filter is 1micrron, as opposed to the more expensive model at 0.3 micron.

So as an all round in a smaller workshop that isnt a big industrial unit, I think it will perform(no pun) more than adequately.
In our old workshop, which was a professional set up, we used a number of basic perform small chipping extractors, which were used every day, for as long as that job required and did so without a problem for years.

As this is part of our Craft range it is designed for the home hobbyist user for 1-2 hours per week usage or 100 hours annually

so this will be the same rating as my saw bench, which i might add has at times been put through lots of work over the couple of weeks preparing material. 1-2 hours a week ?, ive had it running 1-2 hours a day ,every day over a few weeks, and when i have (timber) projects on the go it gets well used.
So i judge that rating to be more than they are saying it is, and certainly more capable than the rating implies.
I'm looking to buy an extractor and i was intending(if funds allow) to get the AC118E- Failing that it would be the craft 2hp chipping model, and I feel it would suit my workshop or any home shop* more that adequately.

* Lets face it. Most of us here dont really fit into that category, in that we're semi professionals and the work produced is above what most would think of as being a small in the shed set up.

Given this isnt a saw, or a thicknesser or moulder, iots not being put under considerable strain in use and its more than good enough for the work being produced, and should it go wrong, and i dont think it would, theres a 3 year guarantee to fall back on.

 

[MikeK]

A few of my friends in the States converted the Harbor Freight 2HP Dust Collector into a two-stage dust extractor by adding a cyclone separator to the blower housing. The HF dust collector is similar in function to the Craft Series Axminster AC153E, but likely not as well made.

Given the price and small impeller, I think the HF version is below the Craft Series level, but they use them for several hours each day and likely bust through the 100-hour point in less than a month. Years later, and they are still working. If Axminster is serious about the 100 hours for the Craft Series, they should make it part of the policy and not the tribal knowledge.

If I was setting up a small shop and the AC118E met my requirements, I would use it like I stole it and not worry about statements made in a blog or Q&A section.

 

[Doug B]

@MikeK they used to put the hours definition on their site, I’ve seen it a couple of times as this subject has come up several times on the forum over the years, perhaps they’ve dropped it now as it generally gets a very lukewarm response.

 

[TheTiddles]

That usage figure is not a warranty limitation, it’s advice. If you use a machine a lot, you may not get years of service out of it.

I’m also dubious that any manufacturer who re-badges a commodity item (which a lot of Axminster’s machines/tools are) has done the work to quantify a usage figure per year, as to do that you’d need to run representative tests which in that case would need to be run over years, that’s an extremely expensive thing to do. The alternative is a service life estimate such as 500-hours of run time, which isn’t what they are saying.

 

[Sean Hellman]

Go for Yorkleen https://www.yorkleen.co.uk. British made and excellent quality. My 20 year old wv2 started playing up, the customer service I received was so good it still makes me smile when I think about it. They carry parts for decades, they are about quality, and repair, so you are not up the duff if something goes wrong or have to ditch an otherwise perfectly good machine. Buy local and buy quality.

 

[HamsterJam]

Surely it’s just Axminster indicating the amount of use (abuse?) they expect their Craft vs Trade ranges to survive without premature wear or failure.
Having said that, it will depend how long the equipment is expected to last and as far as I know, that has never been quoted.

 

[SkyBlue63]

This an email to Axminster ;

Can you explain 'Company policy' regarding your 3 year warranty and the 100hrs a year 'Craft' label.

As it has certainly put me off buying a 'Craft' machine namely spending £650 on the AC118CE, three years sounds great but then followed by the fact 'Craft' range is 100hrs a year. It feels like a get of jail card being kept back in the event of a claim.

I'll keep you informed.

 

[Lonsdale73]

The subject of 'which dust extractor' has come up in a couple of their live Woodworking Wisdom live demos, one with specific regard to bandsaws and one to woodturning. Both times they have mentioned the AC118E and the cheaper AC82E, both of which are regularly used in their own workshops where I would imagine they see much more than two hours use per week. This was at complete odds with answers received from their technical department. Their website states not to reduce the hose below 75mm yet they say any of these machines will work fine with the AC190B bandsaw which has ports that are 63mm. As with their airflow claims, I think anything said needs to be taken with an unhealthy sized pinch of salt!

 

[Inspector]

Just a thought. If the hours of usage per unit was important it would come with a tamper proof hour meter.
Pete

 

[TheTiddles]

Just a thought. If the hours of usage per unit was important it would come with a tamper proof hour meter.
Pete

Exactly right.

 

[SkyBlue63]

And I got a reply

Good morning,

Thank you for your recent enquiry.

The classifications on these machines is to ensure our customers purchase the correct product, for instance a business user buys our Trade rated machines due to the level of usage. The 100hours is an anticipated annual usage.

Can I please call you to discuss this? I feel this would be beneficial to discuss over the phone.

Kind regards,

Sam

I will have to ring monday, i'll keep you informed.