Axminster Clearance Auctions

[Adam]

Sorry to harp on about this, especially as its OT (and possibly OTT), but...

The chassis doesn't look anything like the same, look closely at the castings, they're entirely different. I think someone might have spun you a line somewhere. Copying the idea, sure, they're great rivals. But they're not the same in any respect that I can see.

Which is not to come down on one side or the other, they might be equally good, or the Mafell better. I just don't think it can be said that buying a Mafell is buying a Festool with a slightly cheaper badge.

Jake

Hmm, you might be right, perhaps someone in the know (Andy King?) can cast some more light on this, I was told by my tool dealer that Mafell and Festool were produced in the same factory, with different external parts plastics, a.l.a.... Mafell LO50E

Not ideal pictures I know, but nontheless, this is only of the few pistol grip routers, and they both happen to make them.. Also the same with the plunge routers, in fact the Mafell plunge saw I saw for sale was even being sold in a "Systainer" case - aren't they a Festool product?

They might not look similar, but they both have a "55" in the part numbers as well, and when I looked closely at the Mafell, I'd fairly much decided it was the same.... problem is I can't find any reference on the internet - ALF? Waterhead? Newbie_Neil? ALF's the guru of internet searches, Chris has plenty of Festool stuff already and Newbie_Neil is a tailed fan - any of you know?

A still confused...

Adam

 

[Neil]

Jake is absolutely right about this - and it isn't just a matter of different castings, even the capabilities are different. I've recently been comparing the Mafell KST55 and Festool TS55 plunge saws having got hold of brochures for both, and I've come to a few conclusions which I'll now bore you all with.

- The Festool cuts exactly along the (rubber) edge of the guide rail, which gives you two advantages. Firstly it is very easy to line up the cut as you don't need to allow for an offset, and secondly, the rubber edge on the rail greatly reduces splintering. The Mafell guide rail looks to be offset by about 2mm from the cut. The Mafell has a scoring facility to overcome the splintering problem but I'm not a huge fan of the way this works.

- The Festool's tilting mechanism is a bit special - it is designed to cut along the edge of the guide rail whatever angle it is set to. The feature is patented, which possibly explains why the Mafell doesn't have it. The Mafell has two different slots in its base to fit onto the guide rail - you use one for 90 degree cuts, and the other one for 45-60 degree cuts. I've no idea what you do for the 60-89 degree range.

- The Mafell tilts from -1 degree to 48 degrees, the Festool only from 0-45.

- The Mafell is lighter at 4.0kg to the Festool's 4.5kg.

Personally I'm sold on the Festool, principally because of the guide rail lining up exactly with the cut. But I suggested the Mafell to Adam because presumably the guide rail is compatible with his Mafell router, and because it is £60-ish cheaper.

The links between these companies are very confusing - there are obvious similarities between the two Mafell routers and the light & heavy Festool versions. Then the Mafell ROS is almost identical to the Metabo Duo (and the new DeWalt version of it) Hopefully Andy might know something about this, or failing that, I can ask the Irish Mafell distributor about it.

Good choice on the 3612C, Adam - if you are mounting it in the Woodrat, its only bad feature (the fence) will be irrelevant.

NeilCFD

 

[Adam]

Jake is absolutely right about this - and it isn't just a matter of different castings, even the capabilities are different. I've recently been comparing the Mafell KST55 and Festool TS55 plunge saws having got hold of brochures for both, and I've come to a few conclusions which I'll now bore you all with.

- The Festool cuts exactly along the (rubber) edge of the guide rail, which gives you two advantages. Firstly it is very easy to line up the cut as you don't need to allow for an offset, and secondly, the rubber edge on the rail greatly reduces splintering. The Mafell guide rail looks to be offset by about 2mm from the cut. The Mafell has a scoring facility to overcome the splintering problem but I'm not a huge fan of the way this works.

- The Festool's tilting mechanism is a bit special - it is designed to cut along the edge of the guide rail whatever angle it is set to. The feature is patented, which possibly explains why the Mafell doesn't have it. The Mafell has two different slots in its base to fit onto the guide rail - you use one for 90 degree cuts, and the other one for 45-60 degree cuts. I've no idea what you do for the 60-89 degree range.

- The Mafell tilts from -1 degree to 48 degrees, the Festool only from 0-45.

- The Mafell is lighter at 4.0kg to the Festool's 4.5kg.

Personally I'm sold on the Festool, principally because of the guide rail lining up exactly with the cut. But I suggested the Mafell to Adam because presumably the guide rail is compatible with his Mafell router, and because it is £60-ish cheaper.

The links between these companies are very confusing - there are obvious similarities between the two Mafell routers and the light & heavy Festool versions. Then the Mafell ROS is almost identical to the Metabo Duo (and the new DeWalt version of it) Hopefully Andy might know something about this, or failing that, I can ask the Irish Mafell distributor about it.

Good choice on the 3612C, Adam - if you are mounting it in the Woodrat, its only bad feature (the fence) will be irrelevant.

NeilCFD

I'd checked into the weight, but having seen the differences between the Mafell and the Festool Routers (which certainly appear to be the same) that have different weights and a few other odd differences (which ought to be the same), I thought differences in angles/weight on the saws were nothing other than normal differences as they use slightly different housings. It's onlt the very internal castings that seem similar on the routers.

Still unconvinced I'm afraid. I understand the differences in the guide rail etc, but are the actual castings inside the same I wonder?

Adam

 

[Neil]

Mafell make a big thing in their literature about the weight of their saw - IIRC, it stated that it is the lightest saw in its class.

I think that they must have ties between the two companies, but Festool have kept a couple of features for themselves, like the tilting mechanism.

Mafell make some incredible stuff in their own right, like the portable panel saw system where the saw has a motorised feed along the guide rail and an operator's control box at the end:

Anyway, both the plunge saws look fantastic and I'm sure you would be happy with either of them

NeilCFD

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Adam,

there could be an element of truth in the smaller Mafell and Festool routers being sourced at the same factory.
I vaguely remember being told as such by someone quite high up in a rival company that this was the case, the differences were mainly cosmetic, knobs etc made to specific designs. No doubt Festool, or indeed Mafell may dispute the inner workings though!
Another interesting one was that Hilti and Bosch were using the same factory for a particular jigsaw, and these were pretty identical save for the colour. Having seen both, I can definitely see this one being pretty close to the mark.
On the subject of Hilti, they used to do a plunge saw which I tested in issue GW 87, spookily enough the WSC55, although the 55 relates to the 55mm depth of cut.
They still have at least one in their range, the WSC 85 (go on, have a guess what the 85 relates to!) [url=http://www.hilti.co.uk/holuk/...w.hilti.co.uk/holuk/modules/pr ... OID=-16543
Here endeth my 100th posting...... OK, not quite in Adams league but i've been a bit busy

 

[Anonymous]

Spookier by the minute, I've just noticed that me and Adam signed up to the forum on the same day......
Be afraid..... Be very afraid...... :shock:

Cheers,
Andy

 

[Alf]

Spookier by the minute, I've just noticed that me and Adam signed up to the forum on the same day......
Be afraid..... Be very afraid...... :shock:

Congrats on the century, Andy. 8) Can't decide - A Good Day for the Forum? Or a Bad Day...? <duckin' and runnin' :lol: >

Sorry, couldn't find anything definitive on Mafell/Festool via Google. The gist of them looks the same to me, but I imagine all the raving about Festool is in the detail, which the Mafell won't have.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Adam]

Mafell make a big thing in their literature about the weight of their saw - IIRC, it stated that it is the lightest saw in its class.NeilCFD

I'd reckon thats Festool is the lightest in it's class, only they put on slightly higher quality "bits" than Mafell, which weigh more, and that Mafells claim should be viewed as a negative, more than a positive?

Less confused having now decided it's all a big club and there is actualy one worldwide factory for each tool, and everybody just puts a different sticky label on the way out. :twisted: :roll:


Adam

 

[cambournepete]

Makita 3612C 1/2" router for Woodrat @ £219.95

£199.99 at Screwfix

and Dewalt 624 and Freud @ £164.99

 

[cambournepete]

Hi Adam,

there could be an element of truth in the smaller Mafell and Festool routers being sourced at the same factory.

The mafell man at the last Yandles show said that Metabo made the dual orbit ROS for them (and I presume the Dewalt as well). He might have been telling porkies of course...

 

[Anonymous]

What's wrong with a standard circular saw and a guiderail clamp or piece of wood? Or am I missing something?
Works great for me and saves many £100's too.

I would just like to vote for the Maffel and Festool routers as the ugliest tools I've ever seen :wink: (and they look pretty much the same to me)

 

[Neil]

£199.99 at Screwfix

and Dewalt 624 and Freud @ £164.99

You're right, but watch out as the Makita and the DeWalt versions sold by Screwfix don't have variable speed, making them not very useful at all if you ask me!

NeilCFD

 

[cambournepete]

£199.99 at Screwfix

and Dewalt 624 and Freud @ £164.99

You're right, but watch out as the Makita and the DeWalt versions sold by Screwfix don't have variable speed, making them not very useful at all if you ask me!

NeilCFD

I missed that - thanks.

 

[Alf]

I would just like to vote for the Maffel and Festool routers as the ugliest tools I've ever seen :wink:

Hah! On the subject of the Veritas Medium Shoulder plane:

However, I think mine is beautiful

Nuff said.

I declare all Tony's opinions on tool asthetics to be Null and Void! :wink:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Philly]

Crikey, You're busted Mate!
Philly

 

[Anonymous]

I would just like to vote for the Maffel and Festool routers as the ugliest tools I've ever seen :wink:

Hah! On the subject of the Veritas Medium Shoulder plane:

However, I think mine is beautiful

Nuff said.

I declare all Tony's opinions on tool asthetics to be Null and Void! :wink:

Cheers, Alf

Aww come on. The veritas is a beautiful, well proportioned hand tool whereas theses dogs are, well, dogs :lol:

On the router front I think the 2HP Porter Cable is a thing of beauty

http://www.porter-cable.com/index.asp?e=547&p=4497

 

[Alf]

On the router front I think the 2HP Porter Cable is a thing of beauty

http://www.porter-cable.com/index.asp?e=547&p=4497

You're just underlining the truth with every word, Tony... :roll: :lol:

Now these are tools of beauty:

Cheers, Alf

P.S. What was the thread topic again...?

 

[Chris Knight]

Alf,

You must let me know when that next boot fair is going to be held in your village..

 

[Anonymous]

You do not find the PC to be lovely then?? Have you not compared the veritas to the LN, Clifton or Stanleys?

Now I understand, it is clearly a taste thing - but we do we seem to agree on spokeshaves :wink:

The top 2 and the very small ones to the front are indeed gorgeous, however I don't like the look of the rest.

I think LN bench planes are much kinder on the eye than any infills I've seen. (I know, heretic and all that)


Are these a few planes from your extensive collection? :shock:


Cheers

Tony

PS Sorry to hijack the thread Adam

 

[Alf]

The ones with the fluted(?) infill are an acquired taste, I must admit. But how anyone can regard anything with a tail as "lovely" is beyond me. Hmm, it's not too late to save that shave from an uncertain fate of course... :lol:

And no, they're neither from my "collection" or a local car boot, but rather a shot I've swiped from Galootapalooza IX which happened over the weekend in the US of A. There was a bit of a Wayne Anderson plane reunion it seems. :shock:

Cheers, Alf