Many thanks for your detailed reply Andy
Looks like my subscription will be renewed :mrgreen:
Looks like my subscription will be renewed :mrgreen:
AWGB
- Thread starter Blister
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skeetoids
Established Member
Hi,
The term 'Another Woodturning Group for the Boys' is a Euphenism. Your literal interpretation is therefore misguided, quite why you reference Females in this context is beyond me.
3,000 Woodturners is but a small percentile of the entire 'Group' as a whole, even domestically in the UK nevermind internationally.
Quite why people (members only I believe) feel the need to DEFEND the AWGB is another thing I don't understand. I have every right to question the ability, effectiveness, management, and other activities of an 'Association' that makes me feel unwelcome on one hand but is happy to take my money without any question on the other.
If it's members feel the need to act as informers then I also find this distasteful and childish, but we all need to band together during these difficult times (BUT only if your a member right!).
Thanks for reassuring me that my initial thoughts are well founded.
The term 'Another Woodturning Group for the Boys' is a Euphenism. Your literal interpretation is therefore misguided, quite why you reference Females in this context is beyond me.
3,000 Woodturners is but a small percentile of the entire 'Group' as a whole, even domestically in the UK nevermind internationally.
Quite why people (members only I believe) feel the need to DEFEND the AWGB is another thing I don't understand. I have every right to question the ability, effectiveness, management, and other activities of an 'Association' that makes me feel unwelcome on one hand but is happy to take my money without any question on the other.
If it's members feel the need to act as informers then I also find this distasteful and childish, but we all need to band together during these difficult times (BUT only if your a member right!).
Thanks for reassuring me that my initial thoughts are well founded.
Andy Coates
New member
A euphemism for what exactly?
The reference to females was simply to indicate that the "boys" are in fact boys & girls. We're an open association.
The percentage of UK turners in the Association is an unknown quantity by all qualified accounts, so I'd be interested in knowing the data you base your assumptions upon. International figures are of no importance as the name of the Association should have given you a clue as to our field of immediate interest. Fortunately the size of the current membership allows for all the benefits I stated. Fortunately also, even non-member Woodturners benefit from some actions taken by the Association and other related bodies. An example would be the EU's attempt some years ago to make domestic woodwork virtually illegal without commercially rated safety equipment in sheds and workshops.
That you fail to understand why people might defend something they believe in when they feel an ill-informed attack has been made on it doesn't come as a surprise having read you reply. Why you feel you have been made “unwelcome” I can't answer to. I can say without risk of contradiction that the Association would have welcomed you as a member. And always would. As I've already said, we are an open Association and do not discriminate on any grounds.
That you can question the “ability, effectiveness, management” goes without saying, but your position would be far stronger if you were basing it on fact rather than some preconceived ideas based on nothing more than a willingness to be cast in the role of maverick.
And for clarification, it wasn't an AWGB member that asked me to come and answer the questions raised, but a UKW member.
I think I have illustrated quite clearly why your initial thoughts were patently unfounded but I can see why you wouldn't wish to concede the point.
I'll leave you to spread your dissent in the safe knowledge that any reasonable person will see what's important here.
I am now quite sorry I reacted to the call. There was nothing here to defend after all.
Happy turning.
The reference to females was simply to indicate that the "boys" are in fact boys & girls. We're an open association.
The percentage of UK turners in the Association is an unknown quantity by all qualified accounts, so I'd be interested in knowing the data you base your assumptions upon. International figures are of no importance as the name of the Association should have given you a clue as to our field of immediate interest. Fortunately the size of the current membership allows for all the benefits I stated. Fortunately also, even non-member Woodturners benefit from some actions taken by the Association and other related bodies. An example would be the EU's attempt some years ago to make domestic woodwork virtually illegal without commercially rated safety equipment in sheds and workshops.
That you fail to understand why people might defend something they believe in when they feel an ill-informed attack has been made on it doesn't come as a surprise having read you reply. Why you feel you have been made “unwelcome” I can't answer to. I can say without risk of contradiction that the Association would have welcomed you as a member. And always would. As I've already said, we are an open Association and do not discriminate on any grounds.
That you can question the “ability, effectiveness, management” goes without saying, but your position would be far stronger if you were basing it on fact rather than some preconceived ideas based on nothing more than a willingness to be cast in the role of maverick.
And for clarification, it wasn't an AWGB member that asked me to come and answer the questions raised, but a UKW member.
I think I have illustrated quite clearly why your initial thoughts were patently unfounded but I can see why you wouldn't wish to concede the point.
I'll leave you to spread your dissent in the safe knowledge that any reasonable person will see what's important here.
I am now quite sorry I reacted to the call. There was nothing here to defend after all.
Happy turning.
Andy Coates
New member
You're welcome, Blister. Just don't let on about the secret hand shake will you!
skeetoids
Established Member
Hi Andy,
Thank you for being disassosiative - it has confirmed why I no longer wish to be associated with the AWGB.
Thank you for being disassosiative - it has confirmed why I no longer wish to be associated with the AWGB.
Andy Coates
New member
You're welcome. And such a shame.
As soon as I figure out what your made up word means I'll try to stop it.
regards,
Andy
As soon as I figure out what your made up word means I'll try to stop it.
regards,
Andy
skeetoids
Established Member
"To provide a forum to encourage communication and an exchange of views amongst wood turners of all nations."
Roger C
Established Member
Hi All I just loged in and going through the posts came across Skeetoids comments and was very supprised that he was so anti the AWGB after only being a member for a short period. I have being a member of numerous associations woodturning, model yachting, woodworking association and always got something out by being a active member. Regards Roger in RSA
Ps Moderators scrap the post.
Ps Moderators scrap the post.
gregmcateer
Established Member
Hi Guys,
Sorry to see what seems to be bad feeling rearing it's head.
I've not yet joined the AWGB - in honesty, inertia and life getting in the way that I haven't looked into it properly - Will put it on the New Year's List!
Skeetoids, I read your post with interest and am not clear quite where your anger / distaste come from. Whilst reading, I noticed your link in the footer and clicked on it. I gotta say, fellah, I was pretty impressed by your work, but was surprised you had a link to the Forms of Karma site - I clicked on your link and one of the first things that jumped out at me was:
"In this world nothing happens to a person that he does not for some reason or other deserve. Usually, men of ordinary intellect cannot comprehend the actual reason or reasons. The definite invisible cause or causes of the visible effect is not necessarily confined to the present life, they may be traced to a proximate or remote past birth.
According to Buddhism, this inequality is due not only to heredity, environment, "nature and nurture", but also to Karma. In other words, it is the result of our own past actions and our own present doings. We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate. " etc, etc.
Just an observation.
Cheers and a very Merry Christmas to all,
Greg
Sorry to see what seems to be bad feeling rearing it's head.
I've not yet joined the AWGB - in honesty, inertia and life getting in the way that I haven't looked into it properly - Will put it on the New Year's List!
Skeetoids, I read your post with interest and am not clear quite where your anger / distaste come from. Whilst reading, I noticed your link in the footer and clicked on it. I gotta say, fellah, I was pretty impressed by your work, but was surprised you had a link to the Forms of Karma site - I clicked on your link and one of the first things that jumped out at me was:
"In this world nothing happens to a person that he does not for some reason or other deserve. Usually, men of ordinary intellect cannot comprehend the actual reason or reasons. The definite invisible cause or causes of the visible effect is not necessarily confined to the present life, they may be traced to a proximate or remote past birth.
According to Buddhism, this inequality is due not only to heredity, environment, "nature and nurture", but also to Karma. In other words, it is the result of our own past actions and our own present doings. We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate. " etc, etc.
Just an observation.
Cheers and a very Merry Christmas to all,
Greg
skeetoids
Established Member
Hi,
I mean no harm of thought or discent against the AWGB or any of it's members.
However, I have some 'issues' at the moment that often lead me to think about all things in a negative, simplistic or unthoughtful way. I try not to go online when I feel this way as I can often say things that are out of character or spiteful.
Most of my remarks where aimed towards the philosphical arguments of association and a genuine interest in the psychology of the group and it's subsequent individual's behaviour.
For me, Karma is a deeply resonant subject that I have spent some time studying and I feel I still have a long way to go.
Kind wishes,
Lee.
I mean no harm of thought or discent against the AWGB or any of it's members.
However, I have some 'issues' at the moment that often lead me to think about all things in a negative, simplistic or unthoughtful way. I try not to go online when I feel this way as I can often say things that are out of character or spiteful.
Most of my remarks where aimed towards the philosphical arguments of association and a genuine interest in the psychology of the group and it's subsequent individual's behaviour.
For me, Karma is a deeply resonant subject that I have spent some time studying and I feel I still have a long way to go.
Kind wishes,
Lee.
gnu
Established Member
Most artists are fiececely independent and largely work alone but a lot of great artists and makers beong to a collective or movement like Piccaso, Rebrandt, Damien Hurst belonged to various movemnts whether it was the Cubists, Impressionists, Fauvists, Surealists, Brit Art and you see it in music with all sorts of various genres with people associating and sparking ideas of each others. So joining the AWGB, a turning club or craft guild provides a marvellous platform to progress ones talent. At the same time it is important you follow you own path and instinct so you work is a bit unique and different from everyone elses.
