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Avoiding Covid 19

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Chris152

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Hopefully we all know about the hand washing, 2m distance and staying at home. Beyond that, I found these bits of info useful in my efforts to keep the virus at bay. No doubt people will come up with other figures/ methods but these seem pretty widely accepted for the moment so I'm going by them.

If anyone has other useful tips on how to stay safe or can correct anything, please share.

First, this seems to be a helpful guide on the 'life of the virus' outside our bodies:
safe_image.jpg

I posted that in the coronavirus thread but think it got lost amid the argument.
Something to bear in mind is that apparently on food packaging placed in the fridge, the virus lasts a lot longer, so I've been decanting food/ milk into tupperware containers etc before storing; and that wrappers going into the freezer should be treated when removed as if you'd just bought them, as freezing keeps the virus active for a long, long time.

On cleaning shopping when it comes into the house I saw this, which was useful tho some bits seem a bit sketchy to me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjDuwc9KBps
I've been unwrapping/ cleaning stuff we need to use straight away and keeping the rest in the garage til we need it, hopefully after the time the virus can survive has passed.

Post I leave on the doormat til a couple of days have passed, and then only open the things that look like they might need reading. So my letter from Boris remains unopened.

As for dealing with the shopping/ cooking, I really think this is a good one from a mum with kids on lower income, and not letting things go to waste!
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/whats-on/ ... SJHZDysPVs
I'm definitely doing more planning round food and cooking than ever before. The idea is to go to the shops as infrequently as possible and so far it seems to be going ok - tho the kids are a bit fed up with uht milk...

Please add/ correct anything above - in a way that'll help us all keep safer.
 

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Fitzroy

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10% bleach solution, wipe over everything as it comes in. My step father passed away 3 weeks back, not Covid related, funeral was last Friday and after a week of no symptoms all round my Mums moving in with us for a spell. We’ve been on active disinfection duty for the past 14 days in prep for bringing a 72 yr old grieving mum into our house.

Fitz.
 

RogerS

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Chris152":1rq0c0l4 said:
...
Post I leave on the doormat til a couple of days have passed, and then only open the things that look like they might need reading.
If it makes you feel more secure then why not. I simply put on a pair of disposable gloves, open the post and bin the outers. Then the gloves. Anything inside has been in transit for much more than 24 hours.
 

D_W

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Gloves are becoming difficult to come by here. Many of our retailers have donated their gloves to hospitals.
 

Bodgers

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Chris152":21snwtyw said:
Hopefully we all know about the hand washing, 2m distance and staying at home. Beyond that, I found these bits of info useful in my efforts to keep the virus at bay. No doubt people will come up with other figures/ methods but these seem pretty widely accepted for the moment so I'm going by them.

If anyone has other useful tips on how to stay safe or can correct anything, please share.

First, this seems to be a helpful guide on the 'life of the virus' outside our bodies:

I posted that in the coronavirus thread but think it got lost amid the argument.
Something to bear in mind is that apparently on food packaging placed in the fridge, the virus lasts a lot longer, so I've been decanting food/ milk into tupperware containers etc before storing; and that wrappers going into the freezer should be treated when removed as if you'd just bought them, as freezing keeps the virus active for a long, long time.

On cleaning shopping when it comes into the house I saw this, which was useful tho some bits seem a bit sketchy to me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjDuwc9KBps
I've been unwrapping/ cleaning stuff we need to use straight away and keeping the rest in the garage til we need it, hopefully after the time the virus can survive has passed.

Post I leave on the doormat til a couple of days have passed, and then only open the things that look like they might need reading. So my letter from Boris remains unopened.

As for dealing with the shopping/ cooking, I really think this is a good one from a mum with kids on lower income, and not letting things go to waste!
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/whats-on/ ... SJHZDysPVs
I'm definitely doing more planning round food and cooking than ever before. The idea is to go to the shops as infrequently as possible and so far it seems to be going ok - tho the kids are a bit fed up with uht milk...

Please add/ correct anything above - in a way that'll help us all keep safer.
Hmmm...Fox News.

Airborne for three hours? I'd like to see where they've selectively pulled that from. I don't think airborne transmission has been proved yet. There was some research to suggest that the virus was contained within an infected person's breath, but you'd have to be very close to get infected.

Very few viruses are true airborne viruses (Measles is one). So I think Fox are being a bit alarmist there.


https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandso ... gh-the-air





Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk
 

MusicMan

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If available in your area, filtered milk has a couple of weeks life in the fridge and tastes much better than UHT.

I've retaken up bread baking and after some delay got a 25 kg bag from Shipton Mill so that is good for about 2 months bread.

Good program on Channel 4 tonight about cleaning your home to keep the virus out. We despaired of ever getting our place that clean!
 

Chris152

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MikeG.":2215a5w1 said:
Bodgers":2215a5w1 said:
........ I think Fox are being a bit alarmist there.......
Fox? Alarmist? Whatever next.........
The research is by National Institutes of Health, CDC, UCLA and Princeton University scientists in The New England Journal of Medicine, and that summary by Fox seems accurate enough for those of us trying not to get the virus - which is what this thread aims for.
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-re ... s-surfaces

MusicMan":2215a5w1 said:
I've retaken up bread baking and after some delay got a 25 kg bag from Shipton Mill so that is good for about 2 months bread.

Good program on Channel 4 tonight about cleaning your home to keep the virus out. We despaired of ever getting our place that clean!
Apparently the big problem with flour is they can't get enough small bags for the retail/ home market! I'll be watching the Ch4 programme as soon as I can remember my password...

RogerS":2215a5w1 said:
Chris152":2215a5w1 said:
Fitzroy":2215a5w1 said:
10% bleach solution, wipe over everything as it comes in.

Fitz.
I simply put on a pair of disposable gloves, open the post and bin the outers. Then the gloves. Anything inside has been in transit for much more than 24 hours.
As DW suggests, disposable gloves seems to be getting scarce - I just received a box of mediums that'll probably be too small - but definitely a good plan Roger, for post and other packaging including food i'd think.

Fitz - are you mixing the bleach with water in an spray pump thing? I've not tried that yet. But I was happily spraying anti-bac surface cleaner on stuff in the garage for a day or so before I realised it was a spray thingy I'd filled with tap water for sharpening blades, but hadn't removed the anti-bac label. :) Hope all's going ok with your Mum, good luck.
 

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Be aware that once bleach leaves the bottle it was bought in it rapidly starts to decompose, if you put it into a clear container then you only have a matter of hours before it is useless.

To increase the efficacy of a bleach solution you can lower it's pH but be careful doing this as it will release chlorine gas if not done right.
 

lurker

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Put a drop of washing up liquid in your bleach solution. It acts as a surfactant.
If you make up the bleach fresh every time you can use in lower concentrations.
Any organic matter will quickly "mop up" bleach's disinfecting power, so ordinary cleanliness is important.
 

MusicMan

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The Ch4 programme, which did use an apparently-competent virology consultant, said use either bleach diluted according to the label, OR soapy water (any soap or detergent) but not to mix them. I guess a few drops to lower the surface tension wouldn't hurt though. Soap appears to be equally if not more effective and has fewer risks (it's not too good for our breathing apparatus).
 

John Brown

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MusicMan":2m4x210g said:
I've retaken up bread baking and after some delay got a 25 kg bag from Shipton Mill so that is good for about 2 months bread.
I got a 16kg bag of Malthouse Flour from Shipton Mill. My wife woke up at 5 the other morning, and managed to get an order in.
 

MusicMan

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Yes they stopped orders totally for about ten days then restarted in a trickle. They were hit with 50x their usual orders and are running 24/7 with virtually all the village roped in to help! As mentioned, bags, packing and delivery are the issues rather than the milling.
 

Flynnwood

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@ "If anyone has other useful tips on how to stay safe or can correct anything, please share."

An ER Dr in New York :
https://youtu.be/k9GYTc53r2o

Whose view is shared by Dr Ron Daniels, a consultant in critical care at University Hospitals Birmingham NHS

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-heal ... ntilators/

Snip: The initial recommendations from doctors in China and Italy were to ventilate Covid patients early and aggressively, with the so-called "PEEP" pressure on the machines turned up high so their lungs did not contract when they exhaled.

"The initial message was treat as if you were treating for acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) with a high PEEP," said Dr Daniels.

"But now we are becoming braver. We are tolerating much lower blood oxygen levels and using lower pressures. We are learning as we go along."

The alternative to mechanical ventilation is oxygen treatment delivered via a mask or a nasal cannula or via a non-invasive high flow device. This is the sort of treatment Boris Johnson, the Prime Minister, is said to have received in an intensive care unit at St Thomas' Hospital in London. His blood oxygen levels are not known.

Increasingly, doctors in the UK, America and Europe are using these less invasive measures and holding back on the use of mechanical ventilation for as long as possible.

"Increasingly, we are making the decision to focus on symptoms rather than numbers – predicting the point of fatigue where the patient is struggling to breathe independently," said Dr Daniels.
 

Trainee neophyte

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Flynnwood":1ullxjcj said:
@ "If anyone has other useful tips on how to stay safe or can correct anything, please share."

An ER Dr in New York :
https://youtu.be/k9GYTc53r2o

Whose view is shared by Dr Ron Daniels, a consultant in critical care at University Hospitals Birmingham NHS

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-heal ... ntilators/

Snip: The initial recommendations from doctors in China and Italy were to ventilate Covid patients early and aggressively, with the so-called "PEEP" pressure on the machines turned up high so their lungs did not contract when they exhaled.

"The initial message was treat as if you were treating for acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) with a high PEEP," said Dr Daniels.

"But now we are becoming braver. We are tolerating much lower blood oxygen levels and using lower pressures. We are learning as we go along."

The alternative to mechanical ventilation is oxygen treatment delivered via a mask or a nasal cannula or via a non-invasive high flow device. This is the sort of treatment Boris Johnson, the Prime Minister, is said to have received in an intensive care unit at St Thomas' Hospital in London. His blood oxygen levels are not known.

Increasingly, doctors in the UK, America and Europe are using these less invasive measures and holding back on the use of mechanical ventilation for as long as possible.

"Increasingly, we are making the decision to focus on symptoms rather than numbers – predicting the point of fatigue where the patient is struggling to breathe independently," said Dr Daniels.
The "alternative" news sites have been claiming for a while that China did exactly that - respirators seem to cause more problems than they resolve, allegedly. I wonder if this new method is based on the info from China - allegedly they are sharing information very openly, despite what the mainstream media claim. (Note the extensive use of "allegedly" - if it's not in the Guardian, it never happened).

Re gloves - plastic bags work just as well, if you still have a million supermarket bags. However, because you have been saving the planet, you have reusable bags :-(

Socks will also work, as will winter wooly gloves - one use and in the wash. Or don't wear gloves and just wash your hands...
 

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Flynnwood":1eebutrc said:
I encourage everyone to watch that ER DR in New York and share awareness. Just in case one needs to have a conversation at a NHS provider:

https://youtu.be/k9GYTc53r2o
To be frank, by the time you get to ITU I don't think that anyone has the ability to have a rational discussion with their NHS doctor.

You do what you think is best. And I will rely on the NHS.
 

Fitzroy

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Chris152":wgz7w8nz said:
Fitz - are you mixing the bleach with water in an spray pump thing?
Just a fresh 10% mix in a bowl and wiping over items with a wrung out cloth. Cloth is washed afterwards. As others have said it loses its effectiveness quickly with time, 24hrs max.

Wear gloves if you have sensitive skin as even at 10% it can still be a nasty irritant. Also watch the fumes when making the solution, best done out doors.

F.
 

Richard_C

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Sandwich bags, freezer bags, even cling film finger caps, would also work in place of gloves to open mail.

There is good evidence that the virus lives for between 4 and 72 hours on different types of surface, but little evidence that this is a significant mass transmission route. Infection hot spots started where people gathered together.

I open the post and dispose of outer, then wash hands with soap and water taking care not to inset a finger into any bodily orifices before I do wash.

My understanding is that soap is good, it interferes with the lipid layer which makes the virus stick to things so they get washed down the drain when you rinse. Wholly different mechanism to bleach and alcohol, both of which kill the virus but only at the right concentration and with a bit of time.

I know there is still some risk, but you can't avoid all risk so it's a balance.

As this goes on, and I suspect lock down will in some form for many more weeks, our mental health and relationships will be just as important as physical health. Good to be careful, I'm trying not to become obsessive.
 
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