Anyone experienced with extra large workshop builds in a UK garden?

[Sachakins]

Questions.
Is it for personal use, for hobbyists.
Is it for personal use, for professional hobbyist, to sell on occasionally.
Is it for personal use, for small scale production runs.
Is it for personal use, with hired staff as a business.
Is it a SME business, with contracted workforce.

Or is it just another Warehouse for Amazon or EBAY stock.

I've worked in full scale businesses with smaller square footage than your intending.

 

[xavierx6]

Phone them up and ask, it's the only way you'll get a relevant reply to your area.

I have tried this, they are absolutely not willing to tell me whether it is vaguely possible or not without me submitting plans. As I don't own the house, I don't think I can justify the planning cost for speculation

 

[xavierx6]

If it is in a residential area I think you are irresponsible for even considering it. You would, quite rightly, be the pariah of the neighbourhood. If it was suggested in my area I would be objecting, petitioning and generally raising mayhem about it.

Why? I've never in my life considered objecting to my neighbours plans. It's none of my business what other people do with their land if it doesn't affect me

 

[xavierx6]

have you considered, just renting an actual workshop lol...

Yes, but with rent and business rates, then a second lot of utilities to pay for, it would cost more than a mortgage, plus I would have no way of retaining the rented premises once I retired, so would have to give everything up at some point

 

[xavierx6]

indeed! Rare is the house that gains value through most of the garden being consumed by a massive shed... it probably makes more financial sense to rent a real workshop. Or buy one.

This move is hopefully to be the last one in my life, so adding value would be of no consideration to me. Renting a workshop is absolutely not a consideration (see above answer) and the cheapest commercial unit I can find of this size in an absolutely dog rough area near me would be £330k, which I can't afford as well las a house. It would be around £50k in comparison for foundation work + commercial workshop of the size I listed to be built.

 

[xavierx6]

Questions.
Is it for personal use, for hobbyists.
Is it for personal use, for professional hobbyist, to sell on occasionally.
Is it for personal use, for small scale production runs.
Is it for personal use, with hired staff as a business.
Is it a SME business, with contracted workforce.

Or is it just another Warehouse for Amazon or EBAY stock.

I've worked in full scale businesses with smaller square footage than your intending.

It is entirely hobby.

I collect and restore large items

I currently own all of the things that would fill a 3000sq ft workshop

I have a little under that space currently over multiple buildings / sheds / garages

It's always been a dream to have everything layed out properly in one purpose built building.

I will require this space for the rest of my life / past retirement

 

[xavierx6]

This is clearly a pretty crazy idea, but unless you live in a house with some kind of restrictive covenant, you can cover up to half of the land around your house with outbuildings providing they are not more than 2.5m high with a flat roof and 4 metres with a pitched roof - whatever the neighbours think. However, I think you are going to struggle to get a building 9 metres wide to have a suitable roof pitch to pass building regs AND stay under 4 metres.

National Steel Buildings can apparently do so, and supplied with drawing and specs for building regs. I'll be honest I have not verified building reg requirements at this conceptual stage.

 

[xavierx6]

That's at least 47% of the rear curtilage.

3000 sq ft is not a large home workshop, that's a commercial venture. As others have pointed out this is irresponsible in the context of the neighbours (assuming there are any of course) and probably needs something more commercial than domestic in setting.

Don't be put off by the comments, you asked and people answered honestly. Welcome to the forum (genuinely).

I don't think I am understanding things from a neighbour point of view.

So far I have been lucky that when I have run my current projects past neighbours they have been fine, and I would personally not object to my neighbours doing whatever they want as long as it did not restrict access to my property.

I would not have any reason to object if a neighbour of mine wanted to do exactly what I am proposing, so it's hard to me to imagine why some people on here are indicating how angry they would be.

For the record I live in a very low income town where people are not so much concerned with keeping up appearances and what people might think at the next dinner party

 

[xavierx6]

Don't be put off by the comments, you asked and people answered honestly. Welcome to the forum (genuinely).

Thankyou, it's no problem at all, everyone is free to speak their mind as far as I am concerned

 

[LJM]

If you’re to get anywhere with planning. It’s important that you do understand that not everyone thinks the same; a lot of people can be touchy about what gets built next door and it’s nothing to do with keeping up appearances!

So, two things to do:

1. employ a planning consultant. They will save you time and money
2. Approach all the neighbours who may be affected ie all properties adjacent to, overlooking or overlooked by yours. And probably all in the street because a reasonable concern of the neighbours (and the planning authority) will be that you intend running a business from such large premises.

Good luck

 

[Peterm1000]

National Steel Buildings can apparently do so, and supplied with drawing and specs for building regs. I'll be honest I have not verified building reg requirements at this conceptual stage.

Under permitted development, you can build this without planning permission, but you will need to pass building regs. Here's where the problems come. For a pitched roof building, you cannot be taller than 4 metres. At a 30 degree pitch, the roof alone on a 9 metre wide building would be almost 3m tall. If you are less than 1 metre tall, that might work. On a "flat roofed" building, you need to be under 2.5 metres, but you need a 1 in 40 fall to make sure water drains. That means your building cannot be more than 2.2m tall on one side. Take off 20cm for the roof structure (although I would think it would be at least double that) and your building is very low inside.

I am sure the building you are describing is well over 4 metres tall - probably more like a 6 metres. It's like building a large bungalow in your back garden but less attractive.

Good luck with the planning - glad to see this plan is nowhere near me!

 

[LJM]

I’m surprised such a large structure, taking such a significant proportion of the available space falls within permitted development! But PeterM seems to know his onions on this.

I’m also surprised that it can be done for £50k, including groundworks; I’d definitely be checking what’s included/excluded in that price, and assumptions upon which it’s based.

 

[xavierx6]

If you’re to get anywhere with planning. It’s important that you do understand that not everyone thinks the same; a lot of people can be touchy about what gets built next door and it’s nothing to do with keeping up appearances!

So, two things to do:

1. employ a planning consultant. They will save you time and money
2. Approach all the neighbours who may be affected ie all properties adjacent to, overlooking or overlooked by yours. And probably all in the street because a reasonable concern of the neighbours (and the planning authority) will be that you intend running a business from such large premises.

Good luck

A couple of people in the thread seemed to get genuinely angry by the very idea of such a workshop existing, but they never explained why, so I am no closer to understanding.
Like I say, I am in a low income area so people are not concerned with keeping up appearances, so my current neighbours let me do what I want and I let them do what they want. One house even has a garage built right up to the pavement. There is no way that has planning permission, but if no one has complained, no one is going to enforce it.

So just to clarify, I am not at this stage applying for planning or consulting neighbours, I have just seen a local property for sale in my budget, with an unusually large rear garden and wanted to know if my dream of having a single open plan workshop is possible, meaning the move would be a good idea, or if it's absolutely a NO and neighbours are going to chase me out of the town with pitchforks, then I will have to stay where I am now. I currently have over 2000sq foot, but in multiple buildings some cramped and or awkwardly placed

 

[LJM]

Well it depends how serious you are about the potential move; as you’ve found out, planning departments don’t advise. So, to only way to move this beyond a hypothetical is to engage with neighbours and a planning consultant. They may be able to give you a simple answer free of charge, if only in the form of “yes we can help you” or “no, we can not help you”, but possibly a short, initial consultation.

For questions here to be of much use, you’d really have to understand the experience and qualifications of each respondent, in order to know the value of their answers.

 

[akirk]

This is a good place to start with what you are allowed to do etc.:
https://www.planningportal.co.uk/
more specifically here:
https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/43/outbuildings
Outbuildings are considered to be permitted development, not needing planning permission, subject to the following limits and conditions:

• No outbuilding on land forward of a wall forming the principal elevation.
• Outbuildings and garages to be single storey with maximum eaves height of 2.5 metres and maximum overall height of four metres with a dual pitched roof or three metres for any other roof.
• Maximum height of 2.5 metres in the case of a building, enclosure or container within two metres of a boundary of the curtilage of the dwellinghouse.
• No verandas, balconies or raised platforms (a platform must not exceed 0.3 metres in height)
• No more than half the area of land around the "original house"* would be covered by additions or other buildings.
• In National Parks, the Broads, Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty and World Heritage Sites the maximum area to be covered by buildings, enclosures, containers and pools more than 20 metres from the house to be limited to 10 square metres.
• On designated land* buildings, enclosures, containers and pools at the side of properties will require planning permission.
• Within the curtilage of listed buildings any outbuilding will require planning permission.

So - your restrictions are single-storey / max eaves and overall height (2.5 and 4m - if more than 2m from a boundary) / no more than 50% of the plot other than the house

Permissive development encompasses a wide range of options, and you can in fact build quite large buildings without requiring planning permission - as mentioned above, there are restrictions on what you can do, e.g. roof height for a pitched roof is a maximum of 4m in height - and if you had one pitched roof, that might not work on that size building - however there are other options, so you could have a multi-peaked roof - hard to describe, but imagine building a series of sheds next to each other your roof would go up and down - now take out the walls and you would have one large building with the correct roof pitch, and height etc - a more complex roof and you would have to deal with drainage in the gullies - but it is possible...

based on that...
you want 30ft wide in an overall 40ft width - this would leave you 5ft from either boundary - that will restrict your roof height to 2.5m if you knocked off an extra ft+ each side to bring it to 2m from the boundary, then your roof height can be 4m - it will make a big difference. Other than that - you are just under 50% of the back garden, so if you are single storey and can keep the roof height as required, it would suggest that you can build this on the basis of permissive development and you will not need planning... I think that as a neighbour I would still object (may have no grounds, but... ) alternatively I would be over playing with your tools and joining in!

you will still need building regs - but that is HOW you build it not CAN YOU build it...

 

[Peterm1000]

This is a good place to start with what you are allowed to do etc.:
https://www.planningportal.co.uk/
more specifically here:
https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/43/outbuildings
Outbuildings are considered to be permitted development, not needing planning permission, subject to the following limits and conditions:

• No outbuilding on land forward of a wall forming the principal elevation.
• Outbuildings and garages to be single storey with maximum eaves height of 2.5 metres and maximum overall height of four metres with a dual pitched roof or three metres for any other roof.
• Maximum height of 2.5 metres in the case of a building, enclosure or container within two metres of a boundary of the curtilage of the dwellinghouse.
• No verandas, balconies or raised platforms (a platform must not exceed 0.3 metres in height)
• No more than half the area of land around the "original house"* would be covered by additions or other buildings.
• In National Parks, the Broads, Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty and World Heritage Sites the maximum area to be covered by buildings, enclosures, containers and pools more than 20 metres from the house to be limited to 10 square metres.
• On designated land* buildings, enclosures, containers and pools at the side of properties will require planning permission.
• Within the curtilage of listed buildings any outbuilding will require planning permission.

So - your restrictions are single-storey / max eaves and overall height (2.5 and 4m - if more than 2m from a boundary) / no more than 50% of the plot other than the house

Permissive development encompasses a wide range of options, and you can in fact build quite large buildings without requiring planning permission - as mentioned above, there are restrictions on what you can do, e.g. roof height for a pitched roof is a maximum of 4m in height - and if you had one pitched roof, that might not work on that size building - however there are other options, so you could have a multi-peaked roof - hard to describe, but imagine building a series of sheds next to each other your roof would go up and down - now take out the walls and you would have one large building with the correct roof pitch, and height etc - a more complex roof and you would have to deal with drainage in the gullies - but it is possible...

based on that...
you want 30ft wide in an overall 40ft width - this would leave you 5ft from either boundary - that will restrict your roof height to 2.5m if you knocked off an extra ft+ each side to bring it to 2m from the boundary, then your roof height can be 4m - it will make a big difference. Other than that - you are just under 50% of the back garden, so if you are single storey and can keep the roof height as required, it would suggest that you can build this on the basis of permissive development and you will not need planning... I think that as a neighbour I would still object (may have no grounds, but... ) alternatively I would be over playing with your tools and joining in!

you will still need building regs - but that is HOW you build it not CAN YOU build it...

Good idea on the multi-pitched roof. I had not thought of that. The other thing is that the building height is measured from the highest natural ground level. I have a shed in my garden that is 4.5 metres tall from the bottom of the base to the top of the roof, but it is built on a slope and cut into the ground so that it is 4 metres tall from the highest part of the slope. You may find that if you are prepared to have some of the building below natural ground level, you can have a larger building with less impact on the neighbours.

£50k feels very light to me. They estimate agricultural buildings to average £50 a square foot and a basic domestic building would be double that. Plus you will have to find someone to do the design (a couple of thousand) and get a structural engineer to confirm various bits and pieces (another thousand or so) and then building control on top of that. I would be amazed if you could build a 3000sq foot building in a domestic garden for much less than £100k.

I think the deeds of the property would tell you if there are any restrictive covenants and your lawyer's searches will tell you whether you do have permitted development rights (lots of people have restricted rights so the above doesn't apply).

I am sure different people have different viewpoints and different tolerance levels, but I am not sure I would want a 3000sq foot "shed" built 2 metres away from my property.

 

[LJM]

Where a building is planned under permitted development, is there any official channel for complaint or opposition?

 

[akirk]

Where a building is planned under permitted development, is there any official channel for complaint or opposition?

nope - permitted is exactly that...
there are a number of potential complications though - from PD (Permitted Development) having been removed (tends to be on more recent new builds, but could happen as a part of an earlier planning permission grant) - to possible issues if in a conservation area, to curtilage etc. of listed buildings - so it isn't an absolute always yes, but generally speaking you are allowed to do what you like if it meets the permitted development rules - and then building control manages how safe / standards / etc.

I am sure different people have different viewpoints and different tolerance levels, but I am not sure I would want a 3000sq foot "shed" built 2 metres away from my property.

I would tend to agree, but it does depend a lot on the context - for example a village in which I lived was in a farming area, some of the older properties did have actual farm buildings of this type of size in their gardens - in another road, you drive into what appears to be a suburban detached house driveway, but go past the house and you are in their farmyard with a number of farm buildings - very different from road to behind... equally other areas may have industrial buildings - if you look at the history of London it is packed with buildings in certain areas where you have houses on the street, but go down an alleyway and you are in a Victorian factory of some type... so it is not unknown, and the OP seems comfortable that it won't be an issue - his biggest concern is whether he might buy the property and then not get planning... ultimately if he can build under PD then that is not an issue - up to him how he might manage neighbourly relationships...

and I would be very jealous of 3,000sqft of space!

 

[LJM]

nope - permitted is exactly that...
there are a number of potential complications though - from PD (Permitted Development) having been removed (tends to be on more recent new builds, but could happen as a part of an earlier planning permission grant) - to possible issues if in a conservation area, to curtilage etc. of listed buildings - so it isn't an absolute always yes, but generally speaking you are allowed to do what you like if it meets the permitted development rules - and then building control manages how safe / standards / etc.



I would tend to agree, but it does depend a lot on the context - for example a village in which I lived was in a farming area, some of the older properties did have actual farm buildings of this type of size in their gardens - in another road, you drive into what appears to be a suburban detached house driveway, but go past the house and you are in their farmyard with a number of farm buildings - very different from road to behind... equally other areas may have industrial buildings - if you look at the history of London it is packed with buildings in certain areas where you have houses on the street, but go down an alleyway and you are in a Victorian factory of some type... so it is not unknown, and the OP seems comfortable that it won't be an issue - his biggest concern is whether he might buy the property and then not get planning... ultimately if he can build under PD then that is not an issue - up to him how he might manage neighbourly relationships...

and I would be very jealous of 3,000sqft of space!

I think that is the OP’s question answered!

 

[paulrbarnard]

Why? I've never in my life considered objecting to my neighbours plans. It's none of my business what other people do with their land if it doesn't affect me

You either have great neighbours or have never been on the end of a development killing your enjoyment of the area.