Any views on the Joint Genie?

[mr]

Hi all
I have a bunch of dowels that I need to do soon and don't want to make a complete hash of it as i did on my first attempt. I've been looking at commercially available jigs and the best I've found seems to be the Craftsman Joint Genie but it's not cheap at £95 or so. Anybody used one? Do they do what they say on the box etc? or would I be better off remaking my homemade jig and just practicing

Cheers Mike

 

[Paul Chapman]

Mike,

Don't know if it's any use to you but a couple of weeks ago Pennyfarthing Tools had a couple of second-hand Woden dowelling jigs, one with all the bushes and the other with one bush missing. Both quite a bit less than the price of the Joint Genie. I believe they were quite good jigs. Might be worth giving them a ring. Another alternative is a second-hand Record 148 - I use one of these and they are very good. You can sometimes pick them up not too expensively.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[PaulH]

Mike,

I have the Joint Genie and find it very useful and accurate. However, I don't have anything to compare it against. As you say, it is expensive for what it is but it does work well and is easy to set up and use and is flexible in what you can use it for.

Paul.

 

[mr]

Hi Paul and Paul thanks for your replies. I might give PFT a call, I keep meaning to have a day trip over to Salisbury. The Woden jig - as with all dowel jigs" has a facility to work in pairs as far as I can see. Whereas one of the things that's attractive about the joint genie is that it has something like 6 holes at 45 mm centres (from memory) which would allow you to stretch across the whole edge of a panel in one go (sort of) hopefully thus eliminating c@#k ups.
Having said that its £100 quid barring a few pennies. I'm tempted to knock up another homemade jig and have another go after some intense practice.
Cheers Mike

 

[Paul Chapman]

Mike, another thought. If you manage to get over to Salisbury, I left Rob (Woodbloke) a copy of a 1973 issue of The Woodworker magazine. In that, Charles Hayward did an article about dowelling using the Woden and Record 148 jigs, which would give you a very good idea of their respective advantages/limitations. You are welcome to borrow the magazine (as long as I get it back :wink: ).

Cheers :wink:

Paul

PS One of the advantages of the Record 148 jig is that you can drill holes in very wide boards in one go. The only limitation is the length of the rods and how many bushes and bush carriers you have. Back in the 70s I got Record to make me up a pair of 3' rods and bought several extra carriers and bushes. You can always make up longer rods yourself if you can get the right diameter metal.

 

[mrbingley]

This looks quite a useful piece of kit.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axmi ... -21981.htm

I've seen "Norm" using one for dowelling & he uses it for other tasks as well.

Chris.

 

[Dave S]

Didn't David C make a dowelling jig in his first book to facilitate the construction of the display cabinet? I would think it worth a read as it would be a lot cheaper than buying a good jig.

Dave

 

[mr]

It's not leaping out at me if he did I'm afraid. Not in my copy as far as I can see.
I did make a jig up along the lines of the one shown in the Krenov book - Fine Art of Cabinetmaking, in fact I made two jigs but neither of them were accurate enough. I#ll probably have another go at it at the weekend.

Cheers Mike

 

[Dave S]

Ok. I don't have a copy myself and it's a while since I borrowed it from the library.

Dave

 

[mr]

Dave I take it back you are correct DC does indeed show a Krenov style dowel jig, similar to the ones I made. I will have a read of that section before making another one this weekend.
Cheers Mike

 

[Dave S]

Dave I take it back you are correct DC does indeed show a Krenov style dowel jig, similar to the ones I made. I will have a read of that section before making another one this weekend.
Cheers Mike

Glad to hear I haven't completely lost it, then!
If you do decide to make another, I'd be interested to hear how you get on.

Good luck!
Dave

 

[Anonymous]

Dowels make a poor quality joint; why bother? Mortice and tenons much better and would save a lot of trouble and expense by the sound of it.
In trad work dowels are never used as a joint except in some rare situations, although used extensively to pin through a M&T.
They only came in as a joint with cheapo mass produced furniture. They feature a lot in amateur work because they appear to be simple and easy - but they aren't.

cheers
Jacob

 

[Scrit]

Yes, but how much traditional work is done with MDF or plywood, Jacob? I agree that they can seem simpler than they are, but with the right jigs they can and do produce a strong, durable joint and aren't that difficult. Most mass market dowel joints I've examined which have failed appear to have suffered from glue starvation which is probably why some people have a poor opinion of them. I wouldn't use thenm in preference to M&Ts where appropriate, but for modern sheet materials they are an excellent alternative to the ubiquitous biscuit joint

Scrit

 

[Paul Chapman]

Dowels make a poor quality joint; why bother?

I agree. I use my dowelling jig these days mainly for drilling holes for knock-down fittings, not for dowelling. If you have already prepared the wood to use dowels, Mike, and you have an electric router (OK, I know you don't like power tools, but sometimes it's worth using them :wink: ) you could always rout some slots and use loose plywood tongues. It would probably give a far superior joint.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[mr]

Hi Paul I would have thought that slots and tongues would make for a weaker joint in this case than dowels, the application being sides of a carcass - very similar to what David C shows in his first book that Dave S mentioned (page 88 for those that have it) previously. I have prepared the wood already but as mentioned made a bit of a mess of it and am thinking that I probably have to remake the pieces anyway. (A case of back to the drawing board). M&T joints don't strike me as appropriate at all for the joint although now I think about it I can see no reason why not, they just don't suggest themselves. Dovetails would be what everyone would expect but apart from the fact that my dovetails aren't up to the job I'm not really a fan of dovetails in any case, they have an appropriate use but for me this ain't it. Dowels I thought are the most appropriate joint for the job, given that they're not the strongest but the carcass will be under no great stresses so I can't see them failing. I wasn't expecting them to be overly easy though, accuracy being everything and I am being proved right
ps as for the electric router I do have one. I used it yesterday to destroy another piece of wood which is all I seem able to do with it. Oh I forget I have used it on occasion as a doorstop to stop the wind blowing the glass door shut.
Cheers Mike

 

[Paul Chapman]

as for the electric router I do have one. I used it yesterday to destroy another piece of wood which is all I seem able to do with it. Oh I forget I have used it on occasion as a doorstop to stop the wind blowing the glass door shut.

Mike, electric routers can be a bit unwieldly at times and, as you have said before, things can go wrong very fast :shock: However, you can do a lot to tame them. I'll try to do some photos later today of a base/fence arrangement I knocked up for my 1/2" router yesterday to help in cutting grooves and slots in narrow boards. Works really well and cost me almost nothing to make

Cheers :wink:

Paul

PS for your carcass I was thinking of short, loose tongues about the size of biscuits - similar in effect to dowelling but much better in my view.

 

[mr]

Mike, electric routers can be a bit unwieldy at times and, as you have said before, things can go wrong very fast :shock: However, you can do a lot to tame them.

Yes it does have a tendency to head south very fast. Ten minutes to set the thing up and ten seconds to ruin the workpiece. I don't think I have ever successfully used the thing hence favouring the hand tools, at least when it starts to go wrong you can set things right before it's too late (usually). No one's paying me for it so it doesn't matter if I'm on tuppence an hour

Cheers Mike

 

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't use them in preference to M&Ts where appropriate, but for modern sheet materials they are an excellent alternative to the ubiquitous biscuit joint

Yes OK there are uses, but as alternative to M&T perhaps not, we agree.

I would have thought that slots and tongues would make for a weaker joint in this case than dowels, the application being sides of a carcass - very similar to what David C shows in his first book that Dave S mentioned (page 88 for those that have it) previously. I have prepared the wood already but as mentioned made a bit of a mess of it and am thinking that I probably have to remake the pieces anyway. (A case of back to the drawing board). M&T joints don't strike me as appropriate at all for the joint although now I think about it I can see no reason why not, they just don't suggest themselves.

Had a quick look. DCs book is very interesting but tends to be "pushing the boundaries" so to speak - that cupboard being a good example, with some unconventional details. An alternative joint at the side to bottom/top would be a simple housing IMHO or if you wanted to be bolder then 2 tenons through with decorative wedges perhaps, or bolder still a dovetail housing as discussed here. But dowels just seem a bit "cheapo" to me and more trouble than they are worth.

cheers
Jacob

 

[mr]

But dowels just seem a bit "cheapo" to me and more trouble than they are worth.

cheers
Jacob

I think dowels have this problem ie that they are viewed as bit cheapo but I'm not sure why other than that they have been used in mass produced furniture which I suspect has given them a poor reputation. Granted they're not the strongest of joints but in an appropriate application I don't see the problem. They are a lot of trouble though to get right. I'm contemplating alternatives at the moment - tenons through seem a possibility at the moment after having previously dismissed them
Cheers Mike

 

[woodbloke]

Dowels make a poor quality joint; why bother?

I agree. I use my dowelling jig these days mainly for drilling holes for knock-down fittings, not for dowelling. If you have already prepared the wood to use dowels, Mike, and you have an electric router (OK, I know you don't like power tools, but sometimes it's worth using them :wink: ) you could always rout some slots and use loose plywood tongues. It would probably give a far superior joint.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Again, I agree. Dowels generally make a poor joint and I always tend to go for biscuits. The main reason I think that dowels aren't very good is that there is only a tiny amount of long grain to long grain gluing area. On the circumference of a dowel there are only two places that have true long grain contact - Rob