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Any (post 2008) Economists in the house? - Inflation.

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Jacob

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,,,,,,,,,
but countries are shifting to defend their industrial parks, that will reshape multinational capitalism.
Not if it's left to private industry and the free market - that's what brings in Chinese goods and weakens the importers national industries. Another good reason for staying in the EU - more power to act as a member of a larger group.
 

Jacob

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....... The absolute laugh of it, though, is that pricing is considered to be a primary tool for managing demand and this plays a big part in the government's 'green' strategy. Yet it does not stop people filling up their tank! The rich get richer...
Prices not high enough to manage demand in any meaningful way. They should have been progressively cranked up from way back in response to climate change. Not much green strategy apparent yet!
 

Terry - Somerset

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Price is not a direct determinant of demand. Demand is elastic only to the extent that people can:
  • modify behaviours in response to a price change - difficult short term, change job, kids to local schools, shop locally?
  • have alternatives - often don't realistically exist due to the dominance of the car
  • find the increased price a reason to actively change behaviours - petrol and diesel are incredibly cheap.
If I ask myself the question "at what point would I materially and immediately change behaviour", I suspect the answer may be at around £3 per litre.

This would increase my annual expenditure by ~£1500 pa. A useful chunk of money but hardly a deal breaker (I accept it may be for some). In context - a daily Costa coffe + a newspaper 5 days a week will cost ~£2500 pa.
 

Jacob

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Price is not a direct determinant of demand. Demand is elastic only to the extent that people can:
  • modify behaviours in response to a price change - difficult short term, change job, kids to local schools, shop locally?
  • have alternatives - often don't realistically exist due to the dominance of the car
  • find the increased price a reason to actively change behaviours - petrol and diesel are incredibly cheap.
........
This is why it should have been phased in from some years ago with progressive increase in tax so that people could adjust and also see what was coming. If these things are done suddenly there can be could be chaos, as with Brexit.
I'm amazed that nothing is being done about unnecessary fuel usage such as people bombing about in oversized vehicles, weekend leisure vehicles such as motor bikes , light aircraft etc.
 

Trainee neophyte

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have you studied in depth how China plans and organize its economy? They show a very intelligent planned economy that has no free market, but state filter to what lives and what dies, plus it was designed to exploit international capitalism.
In depth, no - but I am aware of the differences in both their economic and political systems (if you can differentiate the two, that is).

The left seems to believe that China is the great new savior of the working man, with a government that allegedly acts in the best interests of the people. Interestingly China is actually more democratic than your average western country, except at the executive level. Again allegedly, as I haven't been there to see for myself, and I'm not sure I would actually understand it all if I went on on a whistle-stop tour of Chinese local committees. However, it would be tricky to be less democratic the the UK without actively taking the jackboot and sharp uniform route (see Australia for pointers).

So will China liberate the workers of the world and create a new shining city on the hill? Probably not, because culturally they are somewhat more insular and homogenous than the multi- culti west. Oh, and they remember the Opium Wars, and they are not pleased.
 

woodieallen

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This is why it should have been phased in from some years ago with progressive increase in tax so that people could adjust and also see what was coming. If these things are done suddenly there can be could be chaos, as with Brexit.
I'm amazed that nothing is being done about unnecessary fuel usage such as people bombing about in oversized vehicles, weekend leisure vehicles such as motor bikes , light aircraft etc.
You disappoint me. Surely Mummy driving Sebastian daily to his private school falls into your purview of wasteful use of resources ?
 

woodieallen

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have you studied in depth how China plans and organize its economy? They show a very intelligent planned economy that has no free market, but state filter to what lives and what dies, ...
And who dies ?
 

woodieallen

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Public ownership saves money


Public ownership of water would save £2.5 billion a year - investing this could reduce leakage levels by a third.

Public ownership of energy networks would save £3.7 billion a year - enough to buy 222 new offshore wind turbines.

Public ownership of rail would save £1 billion a year - enough to buy 100 miles of new railway track.

Public ownership of buses would save £506 million a year - enough to buy 1,356 new electric buses.

Public ownership of Royal Mail would save £171 million a year - enough to open 342 new Crown Post Offices with postbanks.

Ending the internal market in the NHS would save at least £4.5 billion a year - enough to pay for extra staff - 72,000 nurses and 20,000 doctors.

We're wasting £250 million every single week on privatisation.
These are all very questionable and selective links.
 

Terry - Somerset

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China has unquestionably worked out how to win the capitalist game in the 21st century. They use money, influence and commerce to attain global economic dominance.

The US hasn't moved on in 75 years since the end of WW2, still believing the cowboy ethos that firepower is economic power.

Russia still play the "baddies" as a foil to the US.

Europe fiddles but have at least avoided most internal conflict. Individual countries are not world powers, together they might (no guarantees) be if a federal Europe ever happens.

Internally China is not a socialist country. It is now a rampant market economy. tightly regulated by its government who are concerned only that internal activity drives international success. Concern for individual rights and fairness seems secondary.
 

Jontherobber

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no rush for Petrol/Diesel here, bog rolls and plaster board as well as cement is in good supply.....
Plenty of sunshine as well...
must take the dogs to the beach again (with poo bags) tomorrow....hahaha....

what was one of the basic sayings in "The A team"....u suckers...lol......

dont sit on ur buttocks and do nothing and voting labour wont help as they are totally useless.....
they pretend to help the workers etc but they really feed the problem whilst filling their pockets along with all the social scroungers n migrants.........
Give me a lab gov that did any real good since or during the reign of the pipe smoking silly person willson........

How a bit of forward planning.....oh, dont make me laugh.....
all they can think about is the next election....and troughing it again....

IF politions want to be trusted, how about full disclosure of monies and assets....they should have nothing to hide, Blair and Cameron make good examples...
that should whittle a few down....

as it happens if I'm gonna be ripped of by the government I prefer the "T" team to the hidden privileged, privatley schooled Putin lovin commies in the L team......

just glad I'm out of it.....just so u know, all the self employed engineers, printers, plumbers I knew all sold up and left the UK....that's pretty much everyone I did business with...
I wonder why......?????
[/QUOTE

thanks for the entertainment
 

Jacob

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China has unquestionably worked out how to win the capitalist game in the 21st century. They use money, influence and commerce to attain global economic dominance.
They didn't do it against any opposition from the west - the naive faith in free markets says buy Chinese if it's cheaper/better.
.......
Internally China is not a socialist country. It is now a rampant market economy. tightly regulated by its government who are concerned only that internal activity drives international success. Concern for individual rights and fairness seems secondary.
They are also concerned about sheer survival apropos climate change, which trumps all other issues to be realistic.
 

Trainee neophyte

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Really?

I can’t begin to imagine how you reached that conclusion. :unsure:
By reading. Quite often by reading things that aren't the parochial, UK - centric dross that passes as "news". You should give it a spin sometime.


Concern for individual rights and fairness seems secondary.
There is a long history of Chinese dynasties losing the Mandate of Heaven, and being overthrown. The current incumbents seem to base their decisions on the idea that bringing the maximum number of people out of poverty is good. How does your government measure up in that regard?
 

Terry - Somerset

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Suggesting China are concerned about climate change is fatuous.

Last year they brought on stream 38.4 GW of capacity with yet more still planned. Coal has been the means through which they have achieved global manufacturing dominance.

The most recently built still operational UK coal fired power station opened in 1981 - 40 years ago. It is due for closure in the next couple of years.

What may be the case is that when China decides the time is right to make a transition to green technologies, the transition will be quick.
 

Jacob

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Suggesting China are concerned about climate change is fatuous.
You haven't been following the news obviously.
Even though it has greatest CO2 national footprint China is still well down the list of CO2 emissions per capita with half of the USA figure CO2 Emissions per Capita - Worldometer and is catching up rapidly with sustainable energy and is likely to be the world major supplier of the technology
...

What may be the case is that when China decides the time is right to make a transition to green technologies, the transition will be quick.
That is rather the point and it is happening. “Greening” China: An analysis of Beijing’s sustainable development strategies. "China's green technologies have benefited greatly from national R&D efforts. ... In 2019, China even held the highest number of world-class patents in three fields for future green technologies: recycling, water, and waste treatment. China is also on its way to the global forefront of renewable energy technologies."
 
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jcassidy

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So as regards China, there's two things.

China may well be on the way to leading the world in blah-blah-blah, because dissent is not tolerated.
If Boris or Biden tried to muscle industry and public into 'greener' fuel sources, there's be pretty predictable problems bringing people along with the plan.

In China, there's the Party Way, or... actually, there isn't an "or".

Secondly, much of the world doesn't share the West's concern for personal rights, freedoms, what have you. Freedom of expression, freedom of movement, freedom to pursue life, liberty and happiness. The right to bodily integrity. Right to a fair trial - define 'fair'!
 

Jacob

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So as regards China, there's two things.

China may well be on the way to leading the world in blah-blah-blah, because dissent is not tolerated.
If Boris or Biden tried to muscle industry and public into 'greener' fuel sources, there's be pretty predictable problems bringing people along with the plan.

In China, there's the Party Way, or... actually, there isn't an "or".

Secondly, much of the world doesn't share the West's concern for personal rights, freedoms, what have you. Freedom of expression, freedom of movement, freedom to pursue life, liberty and happiness. The right to bodily integrity. Right to a fair trial - define 'fair'!
The trouble is; climate change also "doesn't share the West's concern for personal rights, freedoms, what have you. Freedom of expression, freedom of movement, freedom to pursue life, liberty and happiness. The right to bodily integrity. Right to a fair trial"
 

jcassidy

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Absolutely Jacob, but history didn't start with humans and it won't end with humans neither. We're not killing the planet, we're just gonna kill ourselves.

Not for a long time, hopefully...
 

Jameshow

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You haven't been following the news obviously.
Even though it has greatest CO2 national footprint China is still well down the list of CO2 emissions per capita with half of the USA figure CO2 Emissions per Capita - Worldometer and is catching up rapidly with sustainable energy and is likely to be the world major supplier of the technologyThat is rather the point and it is happening. “Greening” China: An analysis of Beijing’s sustainable development strategies. "China's green technologies have benefited greatly from national R&D efforts. ... In 2019, China even held the highest number of world-class patents in three fields for future green technologies: recycling, water, and waste treatment. China is also on its way to the global forefront of renewable energy technologies."
From the doc above :-
"Beijing has not yet imposed strict limits on Chinese investments in carbon-intensive projects abroad. And China is still banking on “dirty” energy sources, even though it is a leader on annual installments of renewable energy.10 Nonetheless, China added almost 20 gigawatts (GWs) of coal power capacity in the first half of 2020, and approved an additional 48 GWs from new coal plants – more than Germany’s entire coal fleet.11 Furthermore, the launch of China’s emissions trading scheme, which was officially announced in 2017 and slated for nation-wide implementation in 2020, has recently been postponed.

Hardly green!!

Cheers James
 
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