Any plumbers here?

[johnelliott]

I'm fed up of having to wait for a plumber each time I want to change a sink in a kitchen (probably one or two a week), and I've decided to have a go myself.
I think I would probably be best to use compression joints so as to not have to do any soldering, although those Antex pipe soldering electric thingies look useful.
I know I need to learn about earth bonding as well, as most of the sinks I would fit are stainless steel
Anyone able to recommend any good books on the subject?or have any other advice?

John

 

[ike]

I think I would probably be best to use compression joints so as to not have to do any soldering,

Yup, niceneasy.

although those Antex pipe soldering electric thingies look useful.

Possibly the most useless thing I ever bought. Works well until the copper clamps oxidise (which isn't very long), and pain in the a**e to keep scraping them clean.

I know I need to learn about earth bonding as well,

As far as I know connect earth clamp to each pipe as close as possible to tap (ie. point of human contact). Seeing as electrikery is very lazy, it'll then be more inclined to use the earth wire than your body.

Anyone able to recommend any good books on the subject?or have any other advice?

I reckon you could manage without a book. Otherwise, the sheds have these 'how to' leaflets that give useful pointers.

Ike

 

[Anonymous]

If you're a total novice you could still end up with leaking compression fittings. The usual problem is over-tightening, but by how much? I love the new push fittings -- no soldering, no electricity, no spanners, no ptfe tape, etc., just push it on and forget it. The only things you have to make sure of are that a) the piipe is clean, and b) it's still circular after cutting (you did use a tubular pipe cutter, not a hacksaw, right?). Bit more expensive, but for little jobs, perfect! They even work in central heating systems, by the way.

 

[ike]

A tip. I discovered those flexible braided hoses for connecting the taps. You can get them with an integral isolator valve as well. Horrific ripoff in DIY sheds but dead cheap in Screwfix - . They are very quick and easy compared to fiddling on and soldering rigid pipework to the tap tails.

Ike

 

[Anonymous]

You don't necessarily have to bond the taps/pipework to earth, though in most installations you would do so.

If the sink/taps/pipework are isolated, for example the incoming/outgoing pipes are plastic, then there's a train of thought that says don't bond.

The reason for this is a little involved, but basically when you bond something you are creating an equi-potential zone. Which means that all bare metalwork is at the same potential - usually all at earth potential but it doesn't matter if they are all sitting at 10,000v - the important thing is that they are all at the same voltage, 'cos current don't flow if there isn't a voltage difference.

BUT, if the metalwork is completely isolated (as in being connected via plastic pipes) you COULD be substantially increasing the danger by bonding the sink/taps, etc, for the simple reason that you are then giving them an instant path to earth which wouldn't have been there otherwise. They stick one hand on the sink, the other on something live, and the electricity flows through them. And people only get electrocuted 'cos they put themselves into the conductive path where electricity can flow.

This bonding is actually quite a complicated subject which even seasoned electricians of many years standing can't always agree about. I run into it regularly (I provide general handyman services including plumbing and minor electrics).

Andrew

 

[Anonymous]

John if you use compression fittings i would still use a jointing compound on the olives (boss green) it has to be suitable for drinking water (potable water) as not all compounds are suitable. just a small smear on the olive will do it, make sure the pipe is pushed fully home before you really crank up the fitting. Most of the leaks i go to are from dodgy push fit fittings from sheds, ptfe taped compression fittings and the poor use soldering equipment.

PS if your ever in devon pop in for a crash course in plumbing, i had a friend down 6 months ago in the same boat as you now he does his own .

PPS only for water though, if you want a go at gas you need to spend approx 3 years in the plumbing trade (new regs) then around £600 for the basic CCN1 assessment (only covers gas pipes not appliances, all additional domestic appliance assessments are around £2500 and take approx 3 weeks to complete and only last 5 years) the £410 corgi registration and so on.

 

[thomaskennedy]

I've just fitted a sink in my kitchen,

I found it quite difficult because we HAD to get one of those mixer taps (the one with one tap on :roll: )

But in the end i got there, and happy to say, no leaks!

I just copied the same overall setup that was on the previous taps! That was the main water pipes>A bendy kinda pipe>tap

The waste was really easy for me too!

All i needed was a spanner to tighten all the joints up and that was it

Well worth having a crack yourself!

Ta

Tom

 

[ike]

if you use compression fittings i would still use a jointing compound on the olives (boss green)

If you have to do that, then you ain't a very good plumber.

 

[johnelliott]

if you use compression fittings i would still use a jointing compound on the olives (boss green)

If you have to do that, then you ain't a very good plumber.

Seems a rather strong comment to me, Ike, is it not possible that there's more than one way of doing a good job?
John

 

[ike]

John,

OK, perhaps a little. I'd say using jointing compound is a belt and braces method. But compression fittings are designed to seal with ease, dry, and compound shouldn't be necessary. Where it can go wrong is as was mentioned, the pipe is not round, not clean and smooth (00 wire wool) or the pipe is not parallel to the fitting - all simple mistakes easily avoided even by amateurs.

My comment was a general statement of opinion, blunt I'll agree, but it was not directed at any particular person. I don't know anyones competence, skill, or knowledge on the forum, except as I can interpret from posts, and I am not insensitive enough to suggest otherwise by my remark. My apologies if my opinion was misconstrued in any way.

Ike

 

[Mdotflorida]

John

I have installed a number of sinks.

I progressed from compression to yorkshire fittings to end feed fittings. Soldering copper pipe together is really not that difficult. Cleanliness is the key. Make sure all ends are cut square across and cleaned properly before applying flux then solder.

If the pipe has residual water in it then it becomes more tricky.

As a previous post suggests, I would use flex connectors to the actual taps so that you have some play in making both ends meet and of course you can tighten the tap end before installing it behind the sink.

Try soldering (don't skimp on the gas torch though) , you'll be surprised just how easy it is. Plus of course cheaper than either push fit, compression or Yorkshire fittings.

Jeff

 

[Anonymous]

My comment for using a small amount of jointing compound is for a number of reasons like you say belts and braces or as i like to say fit and forget. Oh and BTW that is what that type of sealant is designed for and the use of it does not make someone less of a plumber. Unless your opinion is all plumbers are $!@~ :lol: .Not a dig at anyone just pointing out a fact. If someone used half a tube of silicon or plumbers mait on a compression fitting then i would say you aint much of a plumber. But to make that comment over something that is designed for that use is like saying what you use glue you ain't much of a cabinet maker :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

You should never use any form of compound on a compression fitting, boss white or any other form. If you are forced to do so then there's something fundamentally wrong with the joint you are trying to make - cleanliness of materials being the main candidate.

Providing that you use a new olive (the circular ring that gets squeezed by the compression fitting) and clean all surfaces before starting there will never be a problem.

The olive is specially tempered during manufacture to be malleable, meaning that it bends and buckles easily. It is based upon a brass compound which is heat treated. This makes it very easy to deform, so when the compression fitting tightens down on it it doesn't give much resistance to being deformed to seal the joint between pipe and fitting.

Problems can and do occur when you try to re-use an olive by undoing and then retightening the compression fitting, because it will have lost its malleability and can't deform like it once did. In these situations cut the olive off and put a new one on.

The other possible problem with a compression fitting is that the pipe you are tightening onto is deformed - either not circular or it has a less than perfect surface for the olive to mate with. Either way, replace that section of pipe.

Andrew

 

[Anonymous]

May I also suggest that if anyone needs help with any form of DIY outside of carpentry they try the following online forums:

http://novoserve.no-ip.biz

Asking a question in a relevant forum will provide an answer from a qualified professional. I don't think I'd come to this carpentry forum expecting to find answers to a simple plumbing problem

Andrew

 

[frank]

john go to your local shed and buy some pipe and fittings and tools it wont cost you that much and practice if you fluff it cut it off and start again

 

[johnelliott]

Asking a question in a relevant forum will provide an answer from a qualified professional. I don't think I'd come to this carpentry forum expecting to find answers to a simple plumbing problem

Andrew

I consider the contributors on this forum to be my friends and acquaintances, and as such will continue to ask them for whatever advice I wish, whether or not you agree (with no smiley).

John

 

[Noel]

Hey Andrew,

What's all this "carpentry" business???? Ain't no carpenters here, or joiners or chippys or Karens, only cabinet makers, furniture makers, even master furniture makers , woodworkers, power and meat powered tool cognoscenti (Hi Alf) and me...........

Noel

 

[Anonymous]

ehh up john it looks like the forums full of plumbers, i think too much time watching diy shows makes people Plumbers. Sorry john that a simple question has gone pear shaped but being a heating engineer for 15 years what do i know about the site ways of plumbing :lol: :lol: :lol:

handymac

You should never use any form of compound on a compression fitting, boss white or any other form. If you are forced to do so then there's something fundamentally wrong with the joint you are trying to make - cleanliness of materials being the main candidate.

so mac are you saying when you disturb a compression fitting that you must replace the olive each time if thats the case you may notice the pipe will be kinked where the old olive was so (after you cut the olive off the pipe) so then you end up replacing a length of pipe god just imagine if you disturbed 2 joints you would have to replumb the whole house (hammer) . PS you cant use boss white on taps its not for potable water.

PS tongue firmly in cheek

 

[tx2man]

Hi John,
I'm no plumber! (there i've said it)
The only plumbing job i can do, are taps.
In 100% agreement with Frank. Whether you want compression,
push-fit etc ,it's fairly cheap to practice and won't take you long
to master. (Apologies to fully q'd up plumbers)

TX

 

[DaveL]

I consider the contributors on this forum to be my friends and acquaintances, and as such will continue to ask them for whatever advice I wish, whether or not you agree (with no smiley).

John

I must agree with John, the members of this forum are very much friends. (Does that make me sad? :roll: ) I know that I have lots of experience outside of woodwork and will share it if appropriate and I am glad to consider advice from other forum members. 8)