Quantcast
  • We invite you to join UKWorkshop.
    Members can turn off viewing Ads!

An Amateur writes!

UKworkshop.co.uk

Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:

Shady

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2004
Messages
838
Reaction score
0
Machine to Hand finished…

If you’re a professional, or a competent amateur, then excuse this post. However, for other ‘amateurs’ out there who are a bit newer at this than me, hope it helps you avoid some of the errors I had to muddle through.. Noely ‘prodded’ me to write it because I foolishly implied that I could improve on machine finished work…

The post will be in 3 parts: Some general observations about the process of finishing with hand tools (like, 'why bother??'), then a list of the required tools, and then my sequence for success. All comments and observations gratefully received.

General Observations

This post is written with the enthusiastic amateur in mind. By this I mean that I’m not talking about woodworking for profit to deadlines, but about being able to proceed at your own pace on a piece of work. I am not a ‘doctrinaire neanderthal’: I use hand tools where appropriate, but happily use machine tools where the return in terms of speed/effort is worth it. It is a common misconception amongst beginners that machine tools are inherently more accurate than hand tools. Not so: they give consistently ‘pretty good’ results, which will be fine for (eg) site carpentry or building a deck. But for the sort of joints on furniture that you will want to show people with pride rather than embarrassment, they are not really good enough. (Before the dispute starts, I accept that professional grade tools can (possibly!) get there if tuned, and properly used: but few amateurs are spending that sort of money…I’m talking about sub £400 tablesaws and bandsaws here, not £4000…)

Providing you are confident in their use, bench planes and chisels will give 2 major benefits: precision fitting/surfacing, and a superb ‘surface’ for glue and finishes. This is because the wood fibres have been cleanly cut, not bashed/smashed or scrubbed by machine blades. The other advantage is that mistakes tend to be recoverable, rather than proceeding at 20000 rpm… A properly tuned smoothing or shoulder plane will consistently and controllably remove wood at around one thou per pass…

That said, I am also not advocating some sort of ‘mega finicky perfection’…. I have both of David Charlesworth’s books, and admire his exquisite workmanship. However, the ‘perfection’ he strives for is a goal that needs to be crept up on slowly, IMHO. While I try to make my work good, there is a balance between this and actually finishing the wretched thing – or at least, there is for me… Start simple – don’t try and make complicated joints for the hell of it: make furniture with appropriate joints. My initial reaction to reading comments like the above about ‘one thou per pass’ was ‘where do these people come from??? – this is woodworking, not aerospace engineering!!!’ It took me a while to realise that this was missing the point: while finished furniture may well shrink/swell up to ½” each year with the seasons, and (certainly in my case) often ends up an inch or so bigger or smaller than I had planned, the joints really do need to be as good as you can get them. This is because almost all joints rely on the mechanical strength provided by a combination of the glue and the physical mating of the surfaces. Any slop in the joint is a weakness that will create problems in due course. And this is most easily achieved with hand tools.

I try to finish all visible surfaces with a plane. If I can’t, I use a cabinet scraper happily. I do try to avoid sandpaper. This may sound a bit ‘fussy’; rather like the point about working to a margin of error of ‘one thou’ above, I originally thought that those who said ‘ooh, ooh, don’t use sandpaper’ were indulging in a little posturing at the expense of us noobs, but when I got confident enough to do this, I was frankly amazed at the difference in the quality of the finish.

Finally on ‘general observations’, there were 3 ‘breakthrough points’ in my woodworking adventure that significantly raised my game: the first was getting to be a confident/competent sharpener. Although it’s a moveable feast, and depends on your individual work habits, I would say that when I’m in the workshop, I will now sharpen or ‘touch-up hone/strop’ a chisel before each joint it cuts, and a bench plane at the beginning of each day. Provided the backs are properly flat, this is a 2 minute job (I’m a waterstone and jig / leather strop user). For enjoyable/accurate/safe work, they really do have to be ‘mega-razor-samurai-deathomatic’ sharp, and when they are, you can sense the blade dulling as you work.

The second was remembering that making the piece includes finishing it… Blinding glimpse of the obvious, but I used to concentrate so hard on cutting and ‘building’ stuff that I’d get to the end and realise that I was only half way there, and that it was difficult to finish now the thing was assembled. I now try to think the sequence all the way through before any cutting starts, and I really try to have all surfaces ready for finishing (eg planed/scraped or sanded) while they are still ‘flat plates’. It is much, much easier, and much, much quicker. If possible, I’ll also put the finish on, and then mask/ avoid glue etc in assembly.

The 3rd was my planer thicknesser. It’s the one machine I actually gritted my teeth and spent a serious ‘wodge’ on. (serious for me, anyway…) It’s the Axminster 3 knife combination job with cast iron tables. I’ll talk more about why I say this in the next post – that’s enough waffle for now: hopefully this strikes a few chords out there…
 

Noel

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
7 Aug 2003
Messages
6,533
Reaction score
245
Cheers Shady, plenty of chords struck. I must agree with you ref commom notion that machines are waaay more accurate than hand tools (other than the more obvious, eg TS ripping etc). A well tuned hand tool and a well tuned woodworker often do produce superior work. just takes a while to learn. I think there is plenty of room for both religions.

Noel
 

devonwoody

Established Member
Joined
11 Apr 2004
Messages
13,468
Reaction score
7
Location
Paignton Devon
Can I assume that perfectionists do not use glue but rely on the quality of their handwork to keep things together. :roll:
 

Shady

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2004
Messages
838
Reaction score
0
Now now, I thought I really tried to make it clear that I'm not interested in all that sort of thing - I'm just describing what helps me...My work is in no way perfect, but I like to try and make it as good as possible.
 

Alf

Established Member
Joined
22 Oct 2003
Messages
12,079
Reaction score
0
Location
Up the proverbial creek
Shady,

Excellent stuff. I'm starting to wonder if we were separated at birth... :shock:

DW, the idea is things like gravity and force are so busy going "wow, what fabulous joints" that they forget to work, I think. :wink:

Cheers, Alf
 

Philly

Established Member
Joined
24 Nov 2003
Messages
6,874
Reaction score
0
Location
Dorset, England.
Shady,
Nice post-lots to think about.
Personally, I think you have reached a "point" on the fine woodworking road. Certain reliasations become obvious as time goes by.
For fine work well tuned handtools make all the difference as well as making the job easier. But without machines to take the grunt work out of the equation life would be sweaty...........
So why can't we all just get along-Norm-ites and Galoots in perfect harmony :lol: :lol: :roll:
Look forward to the rest of your posts,
best regards
Philly :D
 

gidon

Established Member
Joined
19 Mar 2003
Messages
2,546
Reaction score
0
Location
West Dartmoor, Devon, UK
Interesting read Shady. I agree that a sensible balance between hand and power tools is essential. And this is a personal thing - partly dictated by how much time you have to make a project, and partly dependant on how critical your own eye is. Very few non-woodworkers will notice that your finish has just come off a planer with a light sanding and not been hand planed or scraped - but you might. Same with joints. I often struggle with the balance - I really enjoy using my hand tools, but because of my limited hand skills and lack of woodworking time available (and admittedly lack of a hand jointer in this example) I can often turn a nice square planed edge of some wood into something that has to go back to the planer!

Looking forward to your next installment.

Cheers

Gidon
 

bg

zzzz
Joined
7 Feb 2004
Messages
65
Reaction score
0
Location
Norfolk
Very good advice Shady, I wish I had read some of this stuff a year ago, it would have saved me plunging in before getting everything set up properly. However I’m still learning so keep the articles coming! It would be a shame to let such advice get lost in the host of the other postings and the mist of time. How about getting this excellent summary put into the ‘How to’ section. I’m now going to buy a scraper.
 

devonwoody

Established Member
Joined
11 Apr 2004
Messages
13,468
Reaction score
7
Location
Paignton Devon
To BG

Buy a hardened stainless steel 12" ruler they make smashing scrapers and they cost around £1 in the high street type warehouses.
 

Shady

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2004
Messages
838
Reaction score
0
Thanks for all the replies: I’m glad some are finding it helpful. Gidon – I totally agree with you: non-woodworkers will never notice the difference. I do this as a hobby, and I get pleasure out of what I make, so I like to ‘know’ how I finished it, and be aware of that difference. If I had to produce these in batches for profit, it’d be a completely different story…Philly – couldn’t agree more: I really don’t make much of a distinction between my tools, other than, ‘which is best for this particular job?’

On which topic, here’s my list of the essentials for what I do.

Machinery:

I tend to assume that all machines work best with minimum ‘gadgetry’, and maximum power available, and that they will require fettling to work accurately. Accordingly, I look for simple, sturdy machines with as much power as I can get at a reasonable price: I then build jigs as required for specific tasks. I have 3 key pieces of machinery in my workshop: The bandsaw, planer thicknesser, and the drill press.

The Bandsaw is the big floorstanding Perform from Axminster. When I went through the specs in their catalogue, it appeared to have more power and a bigger table than their equivalent trade rated ‘white’ bandsaw, so I had a look at the tool show and bought one. Nice solid cast iron table. Both plastic handles on the blade guard and the fence snapped in use, but I replaced them with scrap hardwood knobs epoxied onto the bolts. With a ¾” blade it can resaw up to about 6” quite happily in most woods I play with, and tracks straight. The fence has adjustability built in, although not a tremendous amount.

The planer thicknesser is the ‘white’ 3 cutterhead Axminster 8” one. As I said above, this was a step change in my woodworking game. Why? Because although scrub planing rough stock is perfectly ‘do-able’, it’s one area where a machine really does reduce the time and effort considerably. I am now freed from, realistically, having to buy more expensive PSE lumber at specific sizes, and designing around it. It took some setting up (there’s a long thread elsewhere in the group about tweaking it), but will convert wood to exact dimensions all day long for me. I wouldn’t have one without a dust/chip extractor. Not only because of the ‘knee deep in chippings’ effect, but also because if you don’t use an extractor, chippings fall into the workings, and get pressed by the rollers into your work: so it comes out at the dimensions you want, but with nice little chipping shaped holes stamped all over it.. Extraction is one area of purchasing where I think Axminster are a little ‘naughty’. All their extraction offerings seem to be hugely expensive and aimed at industrial operations, and explicitly split into ‘coarse’ and ‘fine’. I have a ‘Record Power’ extractor which appears to be basically a blue dustbin with a motor mounted in a yellow plastic lid. It sucks in through a port in the side: chippings fall to the bottom, and fine dust is then trapped by a ‘fine filter’, which is a brown bag wrapped around the motor and card filter assembly. Clean air then gets spat out the top. About £100 when I bought it, and it does a great job. I have a reducing hose for smaller ported stuff (like the tablesaw), and haven’t mucked around with blast gates etc etc: I just stick it down next to the machine in use and plug in the air hose. (As an aside, because I’m a cheapskate, I scoffed at the advice that ‘it shouldn’t be used as a workshop vacuum cleaner’ that came with it. “Yeah, Yeah, you just want me to buy another record piece of machinery”, I thought.. I have now found out why they advise this: any screws or nails you inadvertently suck up fly straight in and stick a hole in your brown bag filter… Suddenly it is spitting fine dust straight out the top… :roll: )

The drill press is the (gulp) £40 quid offering from Ferm via Screwfix… Does what I need, which is offer a consistent ability to put ‘right angled’ holes in stuff. It’s run fine for a year plus now, and if it ever goes wrong I’ll ‘skip it’ and buy another…

I do also have a tablesaw: it’s the Axminster white badged one on a set of metal legs. I don’t feel, with the band saw, that it’s an ‘essential’. It’s nice to have though, and I use it a lot with a home made crosscut sled for repeat cuts to length and the like. For most of my work, most of the time, it does nothing I couldn’t do with my Japanese hand saws, but it does it quickly and repeatably. Conversely, the bandsaw lets me produce ‘home veneers’ that I would not be able to make any other sensible way. I was told not to buy this tablesaw, because it ‘isn’t an induction motor, so it’s very loud’. I like this, as it’s a safety reminder for me: like a dog’s growl, the motor’s scream tells me to think about what I’m doing…

Hand tools.

The ones that I think are most important are the unglamorous ones: marking and layout, a really solid bench, and sharpening kit. I have about 4 marking and cutting gauges, the same number of engineer’s squares, a Japanese mitre ‘square’, adjustable bevels and protractors, depth gauges etc etc etc. You need to have both pin marking gauges, which will mark along the grain without flexing and trying to track the grain, and ‘knife’ marking gauges, which will cut a line across grain without tearing fibres. Splash out on the adjustable bevels that don’t have protruding setting screws and knobs: they always get in the way..

I made the bench out of a lumber core fire door cut in half lengthwise and glued and coachbolted together. With a set of tools in the space between the legs, it is a monster piece that doesn’t move under any amount of battering. (I’m 16 stone, and can stand on it with no apparent movement). Correct height and stability makes an enormous difference when planing, and workmates and their clones are just too low…

I sharpen on waterstones with a jig, and have a very cheap wetstone grinder for establishing coarse bevels/reshaping etc. I’ve actually splashed out on the Shapton professional series waterstones, and I’m pretty impressed. They are by no means a necessity, but are good for A2 steel. I also have a range of ‘bog standard’ water slip stones, gouge cones and a couple of combination stones. All range from 1000 up to 8000 grit. I have found that, whatever the esoterics of the sharpening debate, If I use these in sequence, and finish off with a strop on leather, my blades will shave hairs off my arm, and slice a sheet of paper held in the air. They cut wood well, so I’m not really concerned about any further effort (although that new 10000 grit stone in the Axminster catalogue is not very expensive, so we may just have to have a little play…) I always use jigs, and have one with a narrow roller, so that I can put a camber on smoother blades if needed, and the ‘Axminster deluxe’ for skewed blades.

Chisels. Mine are nothing special: a set of Marples with splitproof handles, and a set of French made ones with wooden handles. I’m probably about to start looking at some of the new L-Ns or some Japanese laminated chisels, as I find their edge holding pretty limited. As mentioned above, they get stropped between each joint cut. It’s not a real problem, but I’m interested to see if the more ‘exotic’ offerings will hold out any better.

Planes. My workhorses: I have the following:

Benchplanes: A Stanley number 7 with a Hock blade. Used for big jobs and jointing edges. The Hock blade really is extraordinary. I don’t know what he does (I think it involves sacrificing virgins to the old gods, or something), but his blades are fantastic. Of all my blades, it’s the one I can be ‘laziest’ with. It just doesn’t seem to get dull. There are 2 or 3 number 5s (1960s Stanleys) for general work. They’re not romantic or collectable, and have fairly coarse unadjustable mouths, but with Clifton blades in, they do their job perfectly well. I really like the Clifton blades. (if you go this route, note that their extra thickness may mean you have to buy a replacement cap iron screw – they’re available from people like Axminster, or just hunt around at car boot sales etc) Like the Hock, they’re not A2, so they’re actually easy to work, and I just seem to get good feedback from them, both sharpening and on the wood. They’re my ‘default’ blade for bench planes. I have a Clifton number 4 for smoothing. This is a nice plane, and a tight mouth is achievable, with the bedrock frog. It has the Clifton ‘stayset’ chipbreaker: I’m not convinced it offers any real advantages, but it came with it, so what the heck…

I should mention here that mouth setting is often focused on ‘obsessively’ in all the literature on hand planes. I have found that this needs to be taken with a pinch of common sense. For most work, most of the time, a sharp blade in a well tuned plane does not require insanely tight mouth settings for general work. In fact, closing the mouth right down will just slow you down and frustrate you, because you end up constantly blocking the mouth, and then scoring the work surface with the gummed up bits of shaving that are jammed half way in..The 2 number 5s I use regularly are set with mouths at ‘somewhere under half a millimeter’, and I don’t worry about it any more than that. The only plane where you really do need this to be set up really well is the smoother, when working with evil wood.. How do you know when this is required? When the test piece shows tear out. (Not the nearly perfect workpiece: I now do all ‘test and adjust’ on scrap – guess why, boys and girls…) I have been down to the thickness of 2 sheets of standard A4 paper – using them as shims to set the opening. At this setting, I tend to be taking one shaving, checking and clearing the opening, and then repeating – this is the finickiest bit of the whole operation for me. The smoother’s blade is ever so slightly cambered, a la David Charlesworth. He does it for correcting edge jointing: I do it so that full width shavings on finished surfaces don’t give any ‘gouged’ edges, and feather into one another imperceptibly…With this plane, blade and mouth, I can finish a piece of cherry, pick it up, and (at low angles) see the reflection of my garden furniture in the surface.

‘Other’ Planes:

I have the 2 Lee Valley block planes (standard and low angle), for normal and end grain work respectively. These are super tools. Thoroughly workmanlike, with total adjustability. I particularly like the inclusion of set screws either side of the blade just behind the mouth, so that you can ‘shim’ the blade side to side precisely. The blades are Lee Valley’s own (I believe they’re A2, not sure…)

The other essential is a shoulder plane. Mine’s an extravagance: the Lie Neilsen large shoulder plane. Very nice to use, although definitely a rust magnet. I’ve also got an inherited little Norris bull nose, and a number of old wooden moulding planes. There’s also the Lie Neilsen skew block, and assorted other generic block planes, and a host of blades, cap irons etc.

On balance, if someone asked me ‘I’m a noob, what handplanes do I need/ do you recommend for good home working?’ I’d say:

“A Clifton or Veritas Number 4 of some sort for finishing, the Veritas block planes, and the Veritas medium shoulder plane. Your choice of number 5 from wherever, and a refurbed number 7 or 8 from e-bay” That’s the core – all else is gravy. I wouldn’t recommend Lie Neilsen at this point. They’re lovely, but the value for money of Veritas and Clifton outweighs (IMHO) any performance advantage. And now that Veritas have these new ‘base-frog’ models out, I suspect they should be technically superior vis a vis chatter.

Saws: I use, exclusively, the Japanese disposable blade Gyuchkos (sp?) from Dick tools in Germany. Lovely and easy to use, good price. I also bought their bow saw blade and built a crude bow saw for it – works well for more aggressive rough cutting to length.

That lot is the core of my ‘tools you actually need to think hard about’ set. There’s then the usual collection of electric drills, screwdrivers etc etc.

Hope people have found this useful: I’ll describe my ‘methods of work’ with stock from the planer/thicknesser next…
 

Pete W

Established Member
Joined
31 Jan 2004
Messages
911
Reaction score
0
Location
London UK
Good stuff, Shady. Although I started out with the idea that a big table saw was the first essential, a shortage of funds gave me the time to reconsider and, although definitely lacking in experience I've come to pretty much complete agreement with your philosophy.

I have invested in a small bandsaw and drill press, and the planer-thicknesser is next on the list (it may be "last on the list" when it comes to machinery, although I take your point about chip-collection and may have to add to my wonderful Fein shopvac).

One change you might like to make for posterity, in your first post you wrote:
"Any slop in the joint is a weakness that will create problems in due course. And this is most easily achieved with hand tools."

I'm pretty sure that isn't what you meant :).
 

Alf

Established Member
Joined
22 Oct 2003
Messages
12,079
Reaction score
0
Location
Up the proverbial creek
Shady":3fq4y1er said:
I have 3 key pieces of machinery in my workshop: The bandsaw, planer thicknesser, and the drill press.
At which point I start to wonder which one of us is the clone, and which is the original... :shock:

Shady":3fq4y1er said:
I sharpen on waterstones with a jig
Phew. Obviously significant differences then. That's a relief.

Shady":3fq4y1er said:
I’m probably about to start looking at some of the new L-Ns or some Japanese laminated chisels
Definitely worth it, IMO. Chisels are much to often taken for granted and abused, but good ones can make such a difference. Think of how often you (not you, just a hypothetical, in general "you") use a chisel compared with a plane? And you'll happily drop over a hundred quid on a plane but make do with a five quid chisel? You can tell I've been working on the arguments I can use for getting the L-Ns, can't you? :wink:

Shady":3fq4y1er said:
The Hock blade really is extraordinary. I don’t know what he does (I think it involves sacrificing virgins to the old gods, or something), but his blades are fantastic.
I've just recently got my first. I fear it might turn out to be an expensive "taster". :roll:

Shady":3fq4y1er said:
I should mention here that mouth setting is often focused on ‘obsessively’ in all the literature on hand planes. I have found that this needs to be taken with a pinch of common sense. For most work, most of the time, a sharp blade in a well tuned plane does not require insanely tight mouth settings for general work.
Can I put in a nettiquette-defying "hear hear" in there?

Shady":3fq4y1er said:
The smoother’s blade is ever so slightly cambered, a la David Charlesworth. He does it for correcting edge jointing: I do it so that full width shavings on finished surfaces don’t give any ‘gouged’ edges, and feather into one another imperceptibly…
Wanna team up against the "corners only" lot? :D

Shady":3fq4y1er said:
The blades are Lee Valley’s own (I believe they’re A2, not sure…)
Yep, they are. Only the apron plane has an option on a HCS blade.

Shady":3fq4y1er said:
I’ve also got an inherited little Norris bull nose
Meep bloomin' meep :roll:

Shady":3fq4y1er said:
On balance, if someone asked me ‘I’m a noob, what handplanes do I need/ do you recommend for good home working?’ I’d say:

“A Clifton or Veritas Number 4 of some sort for finishing, the Veritas block planes, and the Veritas medium shoulder plane. Your choice of number 5 from wherever, and a refurbed number 7 or 8 from e-bay” That’s the core – all else is gravy. I wouldn’t recommend Lie Neilsen at this point. They’re lovely, but the value for money of Veritas and Clifton outweighs (IMHO) any performance advantage. And now that Veritas have these new ‘base-frog’ models out, I suspect they should be technically superior vis a vis chatter.
I deduce that you're not a low angle plane convert, Watson? A big thumbs up in agreement on the shoulder plane though, although I might suggest the larger instead. A big one can do small stuff but you can lose that all-important accuracy when you start doing larger stuff with a small one. The all-round usefullness of at least one "blade right up to the edge" plane right from the start isn't mentioned nearly enough, IMO. Too often they're regarded as a specialist tool that only the experienced would need, whereas the ability to tweak a joint or rebate is of particular benefit to the beginner. Not sure about two block planes either to be honest. A low angle and a second blade to give the standard angle if you really felt the lack would be my choice. But I wasn't going to do my choice, so I'll shut up now... :oops:

Good thread this; well done Noel for the prodding. :D

Cheers, Alf
 

Shady

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2004
Messages
838
Reaction score
0
Scary similarities, eh Alf? (as opposed to scarysharp...)

Agreed - the 'up to the edge' blade is just so darn useful - I wish I'd got one far earlier - and it really does help the beginner a lot.

Low angle? No problems, and likely to be my next purchase in the plane department: I just have no personal experience with 'em: your review on the Veritas LA jack has my wallet itching, so we shall see... (note that I did actually say 'your choice of number 5'... :wink:

On reflection, you may be right about the 2 block planes. it's just that end grain does become significantly easier with a low angle, and anything that reduces the 'fiddle factor' helps people actually use the right tool...

I'm still not convinced with chisels... i know what you mean with planes, but there I'm paying for the overall build quality and adjustability/tuneability features that I can't get elsewhere. Any chisel I get, however expensive, will have it's back flattened, the bevel ground square and the edge honed by me: All I really want is the piece of steel with some sort of handle on it.. As I say, I may well shell out for one just to see, but even cheap chisels (providing they are actually made out of tool steel... :) ) can be tuned to have a straight and sharp edge in exactly the same time and manner as one costing many times more.. the only difference is in 'time between sharpenings', and I don't find it a significant issue with mine. Still, we'll see. Part of hand tools is about appreciating the quality of the 'tool experience', I guess. (Certainly is with the L-N prices, anyway...)
 

tx2man

Established Member
Joined
27 Jul 2004
Messages
391
Reaction score
0
Location
cheshunt, herts
Great post Shady,
Well worth the tired fingers.
I've read every word of the thread with great interest :D

TX
(Rejuvenated Stanley's and Record's R us)[/i]
 

Alf

Established Member
Joined
22 Oct 2003
Messages
12,079
Reaction score
0
Location
Up the proverbial creek
Shady":17fwhwjk said:
I'm still not convinced with chisels... <snippity snip> but even cheap chisels (providing they are actually made out of tool steel... :) ) can be tuned to have a straight and sharp edge in exactly the same time and manner as one costing many times more..
Which, er, applies to planes too... :wink: See? You've proved my point for me, bless you. :lol: Somehow we've all got it into our heads that paying for that extra effort on the part of plane manufacturers is a sensible thing to do. But for chisels, which individually probably will get used more, we look on it as extravagance. I do it myself. It's a fascinating quirk of woodworking-human nature which I won't even pretend to understand. I simply defy anyone who's held an L-N chisel in their sweaty hand not to want one. Bad.

Oh, and fair point on the jack. I keep thinking of the Veritas low angle as a panel plane, rather than a jack, hence I didn't feel it counted. A personal quirk on my part. :roll:

Cheers, Alf
 

dedee

Established Member
Joined
24 Jul 2003
Messages
2,637
Reaction score
1
Location
14860, France
Alf,
the human nature is not confined to woodworking and relates to wants rather than needs. I believe we would all rather have a Rolls Royce than a 2CV but they both get the job done.

Andy
 

Alf

Established Member
Joined
22 Oct 2003
Messages
12,079
Reaction score
0
Location
Up the proverbial creek
So Andy, what your suggesting is chisels aren't suffciently alluring enough to make people want to drop major dinero on them? I can genuinely claim that explanation had never even occurred to me. I suppose it's possible some people feel that way - but I can't honestly say I'm one of them... :oops: :lol:

Cheers, Alf
 

Shady

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2004
Messages
838
Reaction score
0
Glad it's sparking some discussion folks. I'm a little busy right now, and my home connection has gone 'tilt', but I'll try and get the last 'methods of work' one up by COP today.. (Got to go and fill some heads with knowledge first...)
 

dedee

Established Member
Joined
24 Jul 2003
Messages
2,637
Reaction score
1
Location
14860, France
Alf,
Of course they are but surely because we want them rather than actually need them. All those rust coverered bargains just waiting for a home in boot fairs up and down the country will all perform as well as the LNs but they will never have that wow factor that makes us all want to buy something new and modern once in a while.

Andy
 

Latest posts

Top