American terms

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bugbear":2u3dukow said:
GazPal":2u3dukow said:
bugbear":2u3dukow said:
Checking some (English) references last night, I find the Glossary of Wood (a 1948 compilation of articles from the 1930's) I find tote defined as a plane handle.

Charles Hayward "Tools for Working Wood" (1946) labels a diagram with "toat or handle", and Salaman's magisterial "Dictionary of Woodworking Tools" (1975) does the same.

Adding this into the chain of Moxon and Holtzapfel, one can conclude that it's been an English piece of jargon for a very long time.

BugBear

I agree, but the term has not been in common use in this country for quite some time.

I think it's note worthy that Hayward and Salaman also list handle, presumably considered an acceptable term.

Further, the references can't agree on the spelling - which does imply a spoken tradition, more than a written one.

The evidence seems to point to a term that was used by craftsman, not just authors, but not very often (perhaps regional variations were also involved, as per other discussions).

BugBear

I agree on all points and especially so regarding Andy's comment concerning authors tending to draw upon previous writings - often word for word - when re-hashing the same information.

Hampton & Clifford also tended toward using handle instead of toat.

I've a feeling toat/tote originated with respect to the fact planes can be carried by their rear handles.
 
GazPal":czrlrbxf said:
...snip... The frequency of the word's use seems to be an americanism and internet chat forum thing, as I'd never heard anyone call a plane handle a tote in the real world.....snip....

Brings up the question of what the 'real world' happens to be; on this side of the pond, its quite rare to see tradesmen (e.g., trim carpenters, commercial cabinet shops, and the like) who actually use bench planes; those who do generally make bespoke furniture and such. So there's really not that much talk about them outside of the latter cohort, and hand tool enthusiast hobbyists. Going back 20 years when I started to use hand tools, the books on the subject I read used tote to distinguish from the front knob, and then only on bench planes. Most everything else is called a handle. As noted, the term goes back a couple of centuries, and I sincerely doubt that those rebellious Americans had anything to do with it.

BTW, I thought only the French had "language police"......... but then there's the Wilde/Shaw/Churchill quote of the British and Americans being divided by a common language. I wonder which of them actually said that.
 
Admiral":27j4akko said:
GazPal":27j4akko said:
BTW, I thought only the French had "language police"......... but then there's the Wilde/Shaw/Churchill quote of the British and Americans being divided by a common language. I wonder which of them actually said that.


I always thought Mark Twain said it. But then, I'm biased, and I also say stuff like "jointer" and "planer" and "oscillating spindle sander" and "dust collector" and "drill press".:)

Kirk
who also says "handle" and could never understand "tote", which is a verb, not a noun...
 
In some cases American English still uses words and expressions which have been long obsolete on our side of the pond. Consider 'gotten' for example. A uniquely American usage? Nope - pure Chaucer, but possibly not much used in England since medieval times.
Going back further still, America retains a fondness for Latin terms (eg. who lives in a condominium in Britain?). This would solve nothing though, as it leaves the problem of whether to call our plane handle 'ansa' or 'manubrium' !

So I guess (oh, Chaucer again!) 'tote' or 'toat', which sounds anything but a modern likely has a lengthy, perhaps largely oral lineage in British English.
 
Sawyer":qy59wnvl said:
In some cases American English still uses words and expressions which have been long obsolete on our side of the pond. Consider 'gotten' for example. A uniquely American usage? Nope - pure Chaucer, but possibly not much used in England since medieval times.
Going back further still, America retains a fondness for Latin terms (eg. who lives in a condominium in Britain?). This would solve nothing though, as it leaves the problem of whether to call our plane handle 'ansa' or 'manubrium' !

So I guess (oh, Chaucer again!) 'tote' or 'toat', which sounds anything but a modern likely has a lengthy, perhaps largely oral lineage in British English.

I was reading Compass over the weekend (interesting book, IMHO), and I fell across the fact that lodestone and loadstone are effectively synomyms, with neither being right nor wrong. The analogy with tote/toat is evident.

BugBear
 
bobscarle":25vf2k62 said:
Dangermouse":25vf2k62 said:
Well not being lazy, I have done research on the etymology of the word and every instance I can find the meaning is to carry something and the origin some say is in Viginia around 1670 ish, others say its a west african word that found its way into english from early colonization. I can see where it would change from carrying something to a name for a handle to carry something. but I still consider it not an anglo saxon base or latin root word, that is true english and in common parlence it is still considered to an american word brought into english use.
So don't bandy about insults please, it just shows your a smug twit !

I find it amusing (in a strange sort of way) that a thread is started about Americanism's and how the OP objects to that, then spells a word in an American way. :shock:
Well now, my Collins 1988 dictionary tells me that "ize" is the preferred spelling in British English. In fact, there was an Inspector Morse episode, IIRC, which hinged on this.
Personally, I blame Bill Gates for the fact that now everyone thinks "ize" is American and "ise" is British. It's hard to argue with the Word spellchecker.
Just goze to show you....
 
I'm really sorry I missed the beginning of this thread. I may as well offer this. I hope it doesn't anger anyone. In America, there are a lot of people returning to hand tools, after having used power tools, almost exclusively, for years. I am in that category. In middle school, in my home town, at age fourteen, all the boys took "shop class", while the girls took "home economics". We all learned to use hand tools. Shop Class was optional beyond that first year. If you took the class then, you learned to use power tools. A few years later, This Old House came along, followed by New Yankee Workshop. Thousands flocked to buy all the latest power tools. Meanwhile, Roy Underhill was quietly plodding along, doing his thing. Like me, as a lot of amateur woodworkers have gotten older, and all those power tools are sitting around unused, thoughts return to those early years, when hand tools were all that was available, or at least affordable. Now I find myself ignoring anything Norm Abrahms has on the internet, and instead, I read and watch everything with Roy Underhill and Paul Sellers. It's like returning to something fundamental, not only in my own childhood, but woodworking itself. As we "old newcomers" to working with hand tools, struggle to make up for the thirty years or so that we wasted chasing after power tools, it's easy to get caught up in trying to use all the right terminology. The first time I heard "tote" used to describe the rear handle on a plane, I thought it odd, but assumed it must be the old accepted term for it. Since a lot of American woodworking traditions are derived from British (English?) I always assumed that "tote" was from over there. Please be patient. I feel there are a lot more people like me out there. We're trying to learn. Thanks for all the discussion!
 
Jake !, just the very chap, maybe you could help us out with this one,
Last summer, lovely sunny day out washing the car, soaked a couple of the local youngsters to which one of them, a 9 yr old informed me that I 'was a major league douche-bag' :shock: :| , of course I had to let it pass, there was no way I could go and report the incident to her parents, there is no way I would have been able to keep a straight face (homer)
 
If you enjoy this thread you'll enjoy "Mother Tongue" by Bill Bryson.

Much of what we call " Americanisms" are often survivors of the language the first settlers took to the Americas. There it quietly got on with its own business unaffected by the numerous attempts to rationalise English spelling and usage in the 18 century.
 
The term you are asking about, if you REALLY don't know, originally referred to an apparatus used by women for personal hygiene. I won't go into any more detail than that. It is intended to be an insult, obviously. It was derived from some movie script, I presume. The term has been around in the U.S. for twenty years, at least. In recent years, it has come to be associated with someone who does or says things, in an attempt to be "cool", but fails, sometimes spectacularly.

This conversation is not quite in the same league as that posting about the 7000 year old oak well liner.
 
I thought the old English word 'tote' meant to carry, (a verb) rather than as noun, for a handle. I.e., it's a verb and not a noun, (except for a method of placing a bet.)
However, it has been pointed out elsewhere on this forum, that language evolves, often due to popular usage.
I have to put up with that, and I am 'so not' going to change my mind', If you see what I mean!
No, I don't like calling handles a tote. It would have made a mess of the 'fork 'andles' sketch too!
 

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