Alternatives for sharpening

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Gerard Scanlan":25obutmi said:
Thanks to you all for your input and advice. Especially Jacob who has a brilliant no nonesense way of getting to the root of the matter even if it is not appreciated by everyone.
:D Thanks for that Gerard.
I'm all for the "keep it simple" approach. You can always make things more complicated later, but this should be deferred until absolutely necessary! In the past most woodworkers never bothered much beyond the double sided stone, or separate stones with only a small range of grit sizes, never ever approaching the fine grits talked about by modern sharpening enthusiasts.
Incidentally double sided stones are found naturally in some regions, where different strata meet with conveniently different grit sizes and sometimes different colours as well.
 
Jacob":3aikzldn said:
Incidentally double sided stones are found naturally in some regions, where different strata meet with conveniently different grit sizes and sometimes different colours as well.

The only one I know is the rather rare and expensive Belgian coticule, which doesn't sound like your sort of thing at all. Did you have something else in mind?

Double sided stones of any type are a rather recent thing, since they require the stone to be nicely rectilinear, which takes a lot of work, especially in hard abrasive rocks. It's only in the era of diamond saws and synthetic stones that this becomes common.

If you look at older stones, they're normally only flat (don't start...) on the working surface, with all other surfaces (sides, ends, and other face) just as they came from the quarry. This is why older texts have instructions for fitting the irregular stone in a case, using techniques similar to gun stocking.

BugBear
 
Do you use both sides of the Belgian coticule BB?

I have long since wondered if the red/blue stratum has garnet in it of a larger dimension and hence coarser grit or is just a base for the excellent yellow/beige stratum....

Do you happen to know?

Jim
 
jimi43":33r1yt0p said:
Do you use both sides of the Belgian coticule BB?

I have long since wondered if the red/blue stratum has garnet in it of a larger dimension and hence coarser grit or is just a base for the excellent yellow/beige stratum....

Do you happen to know?

Jim

IIRC the website lists the grit (equivalent) for both sides, so I assume so. Although why one would ever use the coarser side of an expensive (premium) stone bought for the excellence of its fine side, I really don't know.

I had a thumb through my copy of "Natural 19th and Early 20th Century Sharpening Stones and Hones" from TATHS. It appears that if Jacob really knows of any double sided natural stones other than the Belgian, he should contact the authors with this new information ;-)

BugBear
 
bugbear":1xt6gei0 said:
So, Jacob Butler - is "Double sided oil stones have served millions of woodworkers over 100s of years" right or not? You sort of ... wriggled.

It seemed to me far more like he was saying "for hundreds of years people have been sharpening on stones functionally identical to the double-sided oilstones you can buy cheaply today". They may have had a couple of stones of differing 'grit', but I think the point was more that they didn't have precision sharpening jigs or water-cooled grinders or wet'n'dry abrasive papers glued to float glass and still managed to make Chippendale furniture...
 
JakeS":28vamwdg said:
bugbear":28vamwdg said:
So, Jacob Butler - is "Double sided oil stones have served millions of woodworkers over 100s of years" right or not? You sort of ... wriggled.

It seemed to me far more like he was saying "for hundreds of years people have been sharpening on stones functionally identical to the double-sided oilstones you can buy cheaply today". They may have had a couple of stones of differing 'grit', but I think the point was more that they didn't have precision sharpening jigs or water-cooled grinders or wet'n'dry abrasive papers glued to float glass and still managed to make Chippendale furniture...
I've no doubt almost everybody understands perfectly what I'm trying to say (except BB of course :roll: but so what :lol: ).
For me the main issue is to establish a sharpening regime in a working situation (actually doing woodwork :shock: ) where the priority is getting the work done!!!! This precludes (for example) working through 5 grits, stropping with rouge and getting razor sharp edges and mirror finishes. Not to mention the frequent stone flattening and all that that entails!
Simplest and most effective is the trad double sided oil stone or similar (diamond?) with a little and often, freehand.
Essential, but only about as difficult as sharpening a pencil and needed at a similar frequency to allow continuity, woodworking and pencil drawing alike.
 
JakeS":2gps21nk said:
bugbear":2gps21nk said:
So, Jacob Butler - is "Double sided oil stones have served millions of woodworkers over 100s of years" right or not? You sort of ... wriggled.

It seemed to me far more like he was saying "for hundreds of years people have been sharpening on stones functionally identical to the double-sided oilstones you can buy cheaply today". They may have had a couple of stones of differing 'grit', but I think the point was more that they didn't have precision sharpening jigs or water-cooled grinders or wet'n'dry abrasive papers glued to float glass and still managed to make Chippendale furniture...

Jacob has previous form in "accidentally" over stating his case, or exaggerating evidence, or making over-bold sweeping generalisations, taking silence as assent, and other devious (and well documented) forms of rhetorical trickery.

So I'm afraid he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt from me any more.

I'm afraid the "simple but wise old craftsman" schtick won't wash.

BugBear
 
Jacob":1rbhw44g said:
Simplest and most effective is the trad double sided oil stone or similar (diamond?) with a little and often, freehand.
I sharpen with diamond (apart from slipstones for concave gouges) - primary bevel with a cheap 4-sided diamond (200,400,600,1000) block from the local agricultural store, and secondary bevel with an 'EdgeCraft' knife sharpening diamond plate I bought from a model engineering exhibition years ago. I don't know the grit of the EdgeCraft plate, but it's fine enough to give a really sharp edge, and an 'almost-mirror' polish to the back of the blade.

I use a jig for the primary bevel and the initial secondary bevel, but freehand for 'touching up the edge'. I used to use an Eclipse honing jig, but recently acquired a Veritas Mk 2 honing jig (from this forum) and the difference is amazing - Rolls Royce instead of British Leyland...
 
WoodMangler":1eybozy6 said:
bugbear":1eybozy6 said:
{prodnosing}
This constant carping does get rather tedious...
I'm sorry about it too but he trolls about after me.

bugbear":1eybozy6 said:
....
So I'm afraid he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt from me any more......
Oh good, so why don't you just shut up and buzz off. Have a go at some woodwork (for the first time?) and send us some WIPs. That'll be the day!

Mod Edited: to modify language used.
 
WoodMangler":2cxynf92 said:
bugbear":2cxynf92 said:
{prodnosing}
This constant carping does get rather tedious...

I can only agree. We're getting very fed up with this continual baiting and trolling. Threads are getting spoiled and derailed because of it. Next time it happens the member deemed at fault will be banned. I don't care who they are or what history they have here or elsewhere they'll be out the door.
 
Hi.

I have been using the GSharp chisel sharpener for the last two months. I recently started a carpentry course and despite being instructed on a whetstone I wanted to find something simple and straight forward that I could use at home or on a job with ease. So I gave the sharpEdge a go. We use our chisels everyday of the week whilst working on constructing various joints, site carpentry and more complex projects such as casement windows. It's been great fun so far and I love working with the hand tools. I think chisels are one of my favourite tools, because you can do so much with a sharp chisel. Not only can you do the grunt work with them, but when it comes to finely shaving they are a pleasure to work with.

I found the sharpedge preferable to a whetstone for a number of reasons.
Firstly it's size and weight at perfect for transporting to and from jobs. Admittedly a stone won't weigh much, but any reduced weight in my tool bag will be welcome when I start work!
Secondly it is so easy to use. I showed it to my girlfriend who has no idea about carpentry and she had it worked out in a few minutes. The diamond foils give you a number of different sharpening options and are easy to change in and out as the face is magnetic. It's extremely easy to set the angle you want to sharpen to as a number of regular angles are already marked onto the handle for ease of use. Adjusting to them requires you unscrew the handle and slide to the appropriate angle - easy. Also you can secure the sharpener in a vice or by screwing to a work bench.
Finally the edge I've got on my chisels has been exceptional. It's even across the edge and stays sharp for days of regular heavy use. It also takes only a small amount of sharpening to get the edge back again.

My friends on the course have tried my sharpener and are impressed with the results. I'm asking them to give their opinions on here so that it helps all of you interested. The website for the Gsharp chisel sharpener has a great video showing how easy it is to use.

Let me know if you have any questions as I should be able to answer them.

Good luck with the sharpening!

Tom Alfry
 
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