Advice needed for setting up a small woodworking workshop

[sfp]

My partner is an upholsterer and she and I have set up a small business for which we will need to set up a small woodworking workshop to support her work and generate some income and work of my own. We're obviously setting up on a shoe string but, it seems to me that there are some machines that I really need to buy, preferably second-hand and preferably as high a quality as i can afford. I've got hand tools, basic DIY power tools but no heavy duty machinery. I'm assuming that there are older models of machine that are better built than modern equivalents.

So far as I can tell, these would include the following as a basic mininmum:

Pillar Drill
Band saw
Disk/Belt sander
Circular saw table

Any advice on makes/models/alternatives and additional 'must have' machinery wold be gratefully received - research hard and pay once feels like the pre-requisite for thrift, good work and long-term satisfaction.

SFP

 

[sfp]

Sorry, can I just add, I've done a little bit of research into combination machines. Are these a reasonable alternative to buying separate machines for a small workshop and, if so, what would you recommend?

 

[marcros]

it greatly depends on what you are wanting to make.

 

[Adam9453]

it greatly depends on what you are wanting to make.

+1

 

[sfp]

I need to refurbish and repair furniture (which would include gluing and clamping) so I may need to shape, cut and/or create replacements for broken arms, legs, frames, joints, etc.

I've made bases for bespoke footstools as well as frames for upholstery classes and I'd like to learn to make frames for chairs and furniture as well as smaller items for sale - simple upholstered clocks, small boxes, etc.

In the meantime, I also have a three storey house that needs extensive renovation with all the light and heavy woodwork that that implies from installing replacement ceiling joists to building small, large shelves, storage units and, of course, workshop storage.

 

[heimlaga]

Having gone a bit further down this road of ours (woodworking as a side income) I have some thoughts and oppinions. Take then for what they are....oppinions from a 34 years old part timer on a sick leave with time to write one's oppinions.....

When setting up an one man business I find thesse to be the basic machines:
-Planer and thicknesser or planer/thicknesser combination. The fit of your joints and your productivity will be largely dependant on the straightness and evenness of the wood you have planed. Therefore thesse are machines worth investing in. The bigger and heavier and more solid the better. I could absolutely not make do with anything less than 400 mm capacity. My combination machine has 600 mm capacity and trhat is very nice to have.
Buying planed wood is really not an option for professional work because of the high prizes on suck stuff and because you will always get wrong dimensions for repairwork.
-Spindle moulder

To be continued in another post in half an hour.

 

[marcros]

i would prioritise the bandsaw over the tablesaw. The usual advise is to go for something with as much capacity as you can.

Drill wise, go for something like an old meddings or fobco. It may need some work to tidy it up, but will be far better when done than anything cheap and new.

 

[heimlaga]

Continuing:

The spindle moulder is a very important machine when trying to turn a profit. It should be fitted with a sliding table or a solid tennoning sled. Then you can use it as a tennoner as well as for cutting rebates and profiles. A tilting spindle increases versatility but tilting spindle machines tend to be expensive secondhand so I make do without it. The spindle moulder on my combination machine has a 2,2 KW motor and in my oppinion that is on the small side. A feedwork would also be nice to have but unfortunately many combinations cannot be fitted with a feedwork.
-Table saw. In my oppinion a 3 kw motor is pretty much the minimum for professional work. A sliding table of some kind makes the saw a lot more versatile. A tilting blade also makes the saw a lot more versatile.
The saw on my combination machine has a 3,7 kw motor and a 400 mm blade. Not blade tilt. I find it's capacity a bit limiting at times so I have a big old crikular rip saw waiting to be rebuilt. It will take a 600 mm blade powered by a 7,5 kw motor. However I am into a lot heavier work than you are so you aren't likely to need such a rip saw.
-Mortiser. I would suggest a heavily built hollow chisel mortiser but I suppose a slot mortiser would do the job as well.
-Band saw. A bigger band saw can take wider blades and consequently does a better job when resawing and when making tennons and such. It also has a wider throat for curved work. However big bandsaws tend to be rather high which is a problem in many workshops with low ceilings. I made a compromize and bought a 24" bandsaw. Barely big enough for some serious work yet low enough to fit under a normal ceiling. I am slowly rebuilding it so it will be ready for work when I recover my health and go back to work.

To me theese are the basic machines needed when doing woodwork for money. If space is tight a combination machine can solve a lot of problems and help you squeeze more machine capacity into a limited space. If space is plentiful separate machines are better. You always loose some changeover time when working on a combination but often the cost of the changeover time is lower than the cost of building and heating the additional space needed for separate machines.
I use a combination machine with planer and thicknesser and spindle moulder and table saw. It is an old moder built to be worked from the front so it can stand against a wall. Most modern combinations require you to work it from all four sides. Hence they take up more space. A separate planer/thicknesser and a separate spindle moulder/table saw could stand with their backs against waklls and hence use less space than a four in one combination standing in middle of the workshop.

-If one more machine would be added to the list that would be a small four side planer. You don't need one for what you are planning to make but it might be worth bearing the idea in mind in case the business growns. A four sider helps you produce planed wood with varius profiles very efficienty.

 

[dickm]

Just my opinion, but for the probable size and complexity of the items the OP is likely to encounter, high-end, high-capacity machinery may be overkill, more suited to semi-mass production than once-offs. Given the variety of mouldings etc. likely to be encountered, I'd suggest a decent router in a good table. Certainly the bandsaw and a decent pillar drill, though again, a Meddings or Fobco might be overkill and potentially need a lot of fettling. Planer/thicknesser, definitely yes. Table saw if space isn't a problem. Universal - depends on space. If there is space for individual machines, go for them, but in confined space a Startrite-Robland or similar universal might be an acceptable answer.

 

[heimlaga]

You may be right dickm

It may or may not apply to the thread starter and his intended venture but in order to make a restoration viable for the customer I was forced to apply a certain level of production thinking. I didn't start that way but I learned it.

There are too many variables so none of us can possibly know. What I tried to convey was that making a small profit is a lot more difficult than people think.

 

[BearTricks]

A lathe might be an idea unless you plan on only making square legs, although some people seem to outsource this to full time turners.

Turning is a completely different skill to furniture making and requires a lot of dedicated practice time so you might want to take this in to consideration depending on how many legs or other rounded parts you plan on making.

Turning matching pieces (dining table legs, bannisters) can be very frustrating.

 

[sfp]

Thanks for all your advice and, particularly, potential models. It's all very confusing and I've a lot of questions I'd like to ask but feel nervous about asking. I've looked for furniture making courses and even good old fashioned woodworking courses but there's very little out there - not in my neck of the woods anyway.

 

[griggs]

Thanks for all your advice and, particularly, potential models. It's all very confusing and I've a lot of questions I'd like to ask but feel nervous about asking. I've looked for furniture making courses and even good old fashioned woodworking courses but there's very little out there - not in my neck of the woods anyway.

Don't feel nervous about asking Q's I say, ask away, worse that can happen is you get an answer you don't like :wink:

On the other hand, there's a wealth of information available here with many tradesman who at some point had to start their own business and also many knowledgable people willing to help out.

May be worth starting separate threads for clarity though perhaps.

 

[BearTricks]

Considering that there's a large tradition of fine woodworking in the UK - there are stately homes in and around every town filled with exquisitely made furniture, done completely with hand tools - you would think that this would have carried through to today in a bigger way. I live in a fairly stagnant ex-industrial town with little to set itself apart these days and I find that all the furniture courses and real apprenticeships are run by guys out on the sticks too far for me to commute, too far from my other half's work for her to commute and too expensive for us to move to anyway.

Most of the skilled guys are too busy getting hammered by ikea to afford apprentices anyway.

I applied for a local course with a college that is owned by the group who employed me. I wasn't overly keen because
I went to the open day and the facilities were great but there was a notable lack of timber and a lot of mdf and veneer. A few months later and budget cuts at my workplace meant that 75 percent of us were offered redundancy. Same week I got a letter from the college citing the same budget cuts as the reason that they weren't going ahead with the furniture course.

I just realised that I sound as if I'm trying to put you off. That's not my intention. I've only been fiddling with wood for about a year and I think what I'm trying to say is that you need to find an avenue, whether it be self taught, some kind of course, or an expert with the time and resources to teach you, and stick with it because options are limited.

 

[custard]

It's all very confusing and I've a lot of questions I'd like to ask but feel nervous about asking.

Ask away. It's not the asking you need to be wary of but the answers.

There are some experienced people on this forum who will give you sensible advice, but there are also the usual internet fantasists and armchair warriors who have never made much actual furniture but still have strong opinions on how things should be done. You'll have your work cut out deciding who is in which camp!

The other thing to be aware of is that in woodwork there really are many diverse routes to the same end result. People that were schooled in one particular woodworking trade tend to prioritise different methods and tools. So a bench joiner will regard a spindle moulder as a critical machine, a boat builder will feel a bandsaw is the most important piece of kit, and the US woodworking culture tends to place a table saw front and centre. Over time they've all found ways of stretching the capabilities of these machines (all three can make tenons for example) so you just need to be aware of that and aim off accordingly.

From what you have said about your objectives you really don't need much in the way of tools and equipment. Some basic handtools will actually take you a very long way. I wouldn't spend anything on machinery until you've made a few items and figured out which are the most arduous jobs for you and where you'd most benefit from some electrical help.

Good luck.

 

[deema]

I'm assuming that you are repairing rather making new furniture, and as such I think your list is almost complete.

I would add a bobbin sander probably a Jet they have a nice desk top model that often comes up secondhand. Good machines and would recommend it.

I would add a planner thicknesser, 12" would probably surfice for your needs, but the usual rule applies buy the biggest your budget and space allow. For new I don't think you can beat Sedgwick for the money and quality. Secondhand again I would buy a Sedgwick as spares are available. However, Wadkin, Cooksley, Multico, Wilson are all good work horses and not too difficult to rebuild if necessary.

For a bandsaw a nice secondhand Startrite 351,352 or 14S1 or 14S5 are all great machines and easy to sell on if you decide you want a bigger machine.

For a Table saw either the Sedgwick for new or secondhand or a Startrite DS275. The latter has a sliding table that drops down out of the way, tilting blade and 4" of cut.

For a drill I like the Meddings drills, I've had a Startrite Mercury which was also great. Fobco are also good machines. The reason I like the Meddings is that I upgraded to a MF4 MK3 which has better reach and is 10speed. They don't seem to go for much money on auction sites which is odd because as a pedestal drill they don't have a much bigger foot print compared to the Startrite but are a far more industrial machine (industrial is good!)

I would probably buy a lathe such as a Graduate with a sanding table and use a face plate for a disk sander. Saves space, added versatility and combined two machines into one. Dust eactraction hoods seem to come up fairly regularly on auction sites for the lathe.

You will probably benefit from an adge sander as well, something like a Jet which seem to come up on auction sites are good machines.

Don't forget some kind of extractor system for the chips. They are extremely cheap secondhand. Look out for a factory relaying out / closing down for 'free' extraction piping. All of mine came free and the owner was really grateful I took it away. It was from a metal fabrictor and as such, believe it or not, steel dust in the pipes condemns the pipes to be contaminated waste!! To decontaminate the pipes they scrub them clean and mix the steel dust with other waste.....costs a fortune. A few bags of saw dust run through the pipes in use achieves the same result.

 

[custard]

I just realised that I sound as if I'm trying to put you off. That's not my intention. I've only been fiddling with wood for about a year and I think what I'm trying to say is that you need to find an avenue, whether it be self taught, some kind of course, or an expert with the time and resources to teach you, and stick with it because options are limited.

Good advice.

I'd add that all paid for courses are not equal. The good ones (think Peter Sefton, Waters & Acland, etc) are outstanding. The bad ones are just dreadful. Bespoke furniture making is a pretty shaky business, so increasingly furniture makers are climbing on the teaching bandwagon. Unfortunately increased competition isn't improving standards. Some are over promising what you can realistically expect to achieve in any given time, others are pandering to potential students and letting them waste time on inappropriate and crackpot projects, then there are the ones that just leave the students to get on with it as they're not prepared to invest much time in one to one training.

I have met people who have achieved really high standards despite being self taught. I suspect that they have certain personal qualities that are essential for both successful woodworking and self learning. Most significantly they're disciplined and methodical. If you really want to learn by yourself you'll need both characteristics in trumps. You'll have to dilligently work through a structured series of projects in a methodical way and accept that it will be a long time before you're actually producing anything that remotely resembles a piece of furniture.

Conversely I've met people who rush in, buying lots of cheap tat machinery and tools, who embark on far too ambitious projects too early, and then crash with disapointment and abandon the craft. This forum sees a constant stream of those people. They arrive with boundless enthusiasm and big plans, but then over the next few months you see it all fizzle out as they didn't have the self discipline or methodical personalities that woodworking requires.

I'm too busy making furniture to spend much time on You Tube, but from what I have seen I'm impressed by Paul Sellers. He really does seem to offer a structured series of projects that guide you through the tools and the core techniques. If I've a criticism it's that his designs look very dated, but if you can look beyond that he does seem to offer a consistent and comprehensive training package for free. However, the truth is you can't really dip in and out of his programme, if you're really going to make that leap from weekend tinkerer to something more substantial you'll have to start at the beginning and plod doggedly through until the end.

Good luck.

 

[david123]

+1 for Paul sellers video,s. You say a "small" workshop what size. I have a small workshop about 12 foot by 11 which for my kit would be to small in normal circumstances, but all my machines are on lockable casters and move very easily, and therefore work for me as a hobby woodworker. What tools to buy is really an individual thing as others have said, I have both a ban saw and a table saw and you could argue that you you could get by with just the one. I used my bandsaw last weekend to cut 8 by 4 oak sleepers for making raised beds, which my table saw wouldn't touch. it is surprising how little you can get away with until you need to invest in a particular machine that you "really " couldn't do without. I understand how difficult it can be. I myself have got carried away and spent good money on stuff that in hindsight I could have done without.
I probably have not been much help but, I wish you well with your new venture. You have come to the right site for help and advice.
,

 

[AJB Temple]

The one piece of advice for me in this thread was from Custard, who said, in essence, make some stuff with basic tools and find out what part of the process you need to speed up to be efficient. I think he is spot on: it is very easy to go out on a buying spree and repent at leisure.

 

[MusicMan]

I do quite a lot of amateur furniture repair and antique restoration but not at professional level of productivity (quality, hopefully!). I don't need high speed production wood shaping equipment; it is more about accurate, fiddly bits. My preference is for an accurate table saw (old Wadkin) and a lunchbox thicknesser. This allows, for example, really accurate replacement of drawer runners, a common problem. If space and £ permits of course a good planer thicknesses would be nice, but not essential.

One thing not mentioned so far is jigs that help those broken furniture repairs. I have found the Lamello Rasto jig very useful in aligning dowel holes in broken components.

Alignment jigs for glueing can be home made, but loads of cramps in all sizes are needed. My choices are

Record clamp ends model 130, bought on eBay, fitted to carefully drilled 50x25 mm still tube, with end stops (there was a post about this a few weeks back, which I stole ). Note that Woden and some other clamp ends don't have quite the same dimensions, so you need to get the same make throughout. Use the holes for retaining pins in the dowels. I clean the steel up with green Gunk, then microcrystalline wax the surfaces to keep them clean.

Plenty of Record-type G clamps in different sizes. Wooden parallel clamps.

Two-screw edging clamps (often costly, but I got mine when Rutland had a good offer). Edge banding often needs replacement.

A number of plastic spring clamps in different sizes, for attaching infill veneer pieces.

Rebate planes: apart from the standard Stanley, I have a large wooden Beaver plane and a small wooden skew rebate, and a bull nose plane (e.g. for cleaning up drawer runners before glueing replacements)

Hand held router and guide jigs.

Bench with end vice and dogs (just used mine for glueing up the base of a dovetailed Georgian bureau - much better then clamps).

Bevel chisel set, mallets and saws.

As said above, it is mostly hand work. The saw and thicknesses help you get the replacement parts quickly. A good bandsaw would I am sure be fine, but I am not sure if they are as accurate as table saws. I've just used mine to cut a 1 mm sliver 600mm x 30 mm as a runner replacement. I expect a good bandsaw, well set up, would do that, but certainly not my little toy Draper!

Keith