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graduate_owner

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Is it me or is the BBC just getting worse and worse when it comes to 'adverts', by which I mean adverting ad nauseam their forthcoming programmes. At the moment the one that's getting on my nerves is "The Voice". Not anywhere as bad as the true commercial channels of course.
Am I being a Mr. Grumpy here or do others feel the same way?

Once the temperatures improve I'll be back in the (unheated) workshop anyway, so less TV watching.

K
 
I'm with graduate owner on this. Most BBC programmes which are suppposed to be 1/2 hour are down below 25 minutes now to accommodate the REALLY IRRITATING trailers. Definitely Mr Grumpy here.
 
Yes, get rid of crap stuff like BBC 2, 3 & 4, Radio 3,4. Then we can all enjoy much more X factor and big brother.
 
When the BBC does the job properly they are a superb broadcasting company.Sadly they seem to have got hold of the idea that they have to compete for the highest numbers of viewers or listeners.Some real rubbish is the result and there are now so many channels that there can be virtually no unemployed presenters.I would mind a lot less if the current funding system wasn't so redolent of taxation without representation i.e. they demand my money but never ask what I would like them to do with it.
 
I don't want to get rid of the BBC and actually I am not against the licence fee as I use bbc TV, Radio and websites. However I do agree about them advertising themselves. It's very frustrating. I too am fed up with the radio 2 ad with Roger Moore. I don't think it can work as I've heard it so much much but I can't tell you the name of the programme or when it is on! I'm not against the odd mention of new things but it has become overkill.
 
MIGNAL":1ll520lo said:
Yes, get rid of rubbish stuff like BBC 2, 3 & 4, Radio 3,4. Then we can all enjoy much more X factor and big brother.


Get rid of Radio 3? That would be the end of civilisation as we know it! Sir Humphrey Appleby GCB, KBE, MVO, MA (Oxon)
 
In my day, the head of our production centre had a chaffeur-driven car.

The driver was a normal part of the transport department and he and the vehicle ran errands when it wasn't being used for official business. So I'd book it (him) for a run down to Temple Meads station to take our flightcases of (rented) radio mics back to the Red Star parcels office at the end of a studio day. Generally speaking, everyone in the building, including HNPC (the boss), would have been mortified if the facility had been used for, say, shopping trips.

We had a small pool of estate cars for general purposes and our specialist vehicles, and that was it. Pretty much everything else was either hired in as needed or a staff-owned vehicle, or public transport.

About three months before I resigned, at the end of the 1980s, they started introducing leased company cars for middle managers.

We couldn't understand why. The mileage rate was quite adequate - if you needed a car for work it covered the cost; if you didn't you could choose to own one and it was a handy subsidy for those rare occasions. I think it's fair to say that new cars were almost unknown in the car park, the exceptions being those of the news film crews (many of whom were freelancers anyway), whose vehicles had to be fairly fast and reliable (they did huge mileages).

That company car scheme was the start of the rot - the creation of a middle and upper-management elite. It created envy, and separated managers out from the rest of us. Previously people often moved reluctantly from operational jobs into management. I had several friends who were asked to apply for management jobs but refused, and, to be fair, the lower rungs weren't well paid. Afterwards, management became popular with those who preferred self aggrandisement to making programmes.

It's been like that ever since. I still have many friends and relatives in the BBC. They all say the same thing: its management is now centralized, very powerful, very well remunerated, and they no longer feel part of a big, collaborative effort like we used to. They also all feel they're only paid to do a job, not contribute to a bigger goal.

The other big change behind the scenes is at the bottom end: the BBC like other unprincipled operators in the industry, expects people to work, literally, for nothing.

"Internships" are a quite disgraceful concept. They are a legalized form of slave labour, they increase stratification and a them+us ethos, they allow wealthy people to 'buy' jobs by subsidizing their children, and above all else they give impressionable youngsters false hope. There are no jobs to move on to once an internship ends. The Meejuh Studies departments of schools, colleges and universities across the land have TEN TIMES the number of students enrolled, each and every year, than there are jobs in the UK broadcast industry in total (never mind vacancies).

I fought hard to get and keep my initial, low-grade technical job in the BBC: initial tests, several interviews in succession, long technical training courses with weekly tests (pass mark to keep your job 90%), on-the-job assessment and regular feedback sessions with my boss. It was made clear I was joining an elite team and I had to be up to standard. And boy, were my colleagues and production teams people to live up to! I wasn't paid much, but I WAS paid. Even then, the ratio of applicants to entry-level jobs in engineering was something like 100:1. If you wanted to train, the only alternatives were the BBC and a very small operation (Ravensborne) run by the ITA. This made sense, as the training resources reflected the small number of jobs in the industry.

Roll on 25+ years. I took one of my children to Bournemouth University a few years ago to look at a journalism course they were interested in. Bournemouth is one of the BBC's favourites, and has (had) a number of ex-BBC managers on its teaching staff.

There were about two hundred families there for the open day, and we packed out the largest lecture theatre to hear presentations on what the courses offered. There was noticeably a lot of bling in the room: tanned, expensively-dressed parents and children. After the talks, they ran a video featuring (I think) three of their graduates, grinning to the camera about how good their courses had been.

I was one of only two people who asked questions: what were the people in the video doing now and how many of their graduates went on to get jobs at the level for which they had been trained? Of the three, only one was still in the industry after two years, working as a production runner (had a degree qualification trained as a director/editor).

Surely they had other success stories? After all, they were graduating over a hundred people a year...
... silence fell, and, as we got up to leave, I could hear the non-answer being discussed by families around us.

Never mind the licence fee: why are British taxpayers paying for all these, pointless, media courses across the country?

Back on topic, the issues are obvious: BBC simply does too much these days. The money is spread too thinly; it has an expensive, unaccountable and top-heavy management structure; the old, productive corporate culture has largely gone*; it has lost sight of its public-service remit; its standards in many areas have plummeted.

The public-service 'deficit' is particularly obvious in its regional and local services, now largely clones of London. Moving big departments to Salford (Manchester) is pointless if at the same time the system denies autonomy to local programme makers. Radio Bristol, for example, used to have a proudly local team of presenters. They're long gone, and their replacements have come from all over the place. "Local" radio isn't honestly local any more, and it's the same for TV. The BBC no longer genuinely reflects the diversity of the country, it mainly imposes London attitudes and standards on everyone else.

The unaccountable management, responsible for this sort of thing, is by far the BBC's biggest problem: it doesn't employ, and doesn't understand even middle-class Britain, let alone those who make up the majority of the population. And it doesn't care.

I don't want to see the license fee go. For decades it gave us an independent voice in the nation - not beholden to commercial interests. But I struggle to see how the BBC could be restored to its former greatness.

E.

*In the late 1970s/early 1980s the BBC was extremely proud of being the most efficient broadcaster in Europe, in programme hours per staff member, per pound of income, and per studio facility. That was achieved by doing almost everything in-house, with its own engineering and technical Directorate, with a very lean management structure, and by staff who were proud to be as productive as possible.
 
Having a PVR makes watching TV much more enjoyable.
We very rarely watch live TV and therefore hardly ever see adverts.
We do however also have a Sky Now TV Box where I'm appalled by the amount of repeats being shown on their channels so give me Freeview anytime.
You've only got to spend time in the States to see how bad a fully commercialised TV system is. You certainly don't want to go down that path!

With regard to BBC adverts, are they not making programme times to suit other countries where they might sell the programmes to - allowing for advert slots?

Rod
 
Eric,
What a very interesting and informed post.

The BBC was on my list of companies that I applied to for engineering/technical positions when leaving school.
I ended up doing an apprenticeship (remember those, now strangely back in fashion, but not in the correct format, but that's a whole other topic) with what was then British Telecom, I was lucky enough to be on the receiving end of some excellent training, (non telecommunications) like you the colleagues were something to look up to and aspire to.

Eric The Viking":1cleajnh said:
Never mind the licence fee: why are British taxpayers paying for all these, pointless, media courses across the country?

It's not just media courses, why are we paying for everyone to go to University? When I left school the clever bods went on to do A levels and then maybe the top few percent went on to University, if the family could afford to support them. If you give everybody a degree then surely that qualification becomes worthless.
 
How much do we pay each year for independent TV and Radio? Obviously it's not a direct payment but it's payment whether one likes it or not. They aren't giving us free radio and TV channels because they happen to be very kind people. It takes the form that is more akin to indirect taxes. You kind of know that you are paying for them but you don't always feel as though you are.
 
dickm":2dfvhpn1 said:
I'm with graduate owner on this. Most BBC programmes which are suppposed to be 1/2 hour are down below 25 minutes now to accommodate the REALLY IRRITATING trailers. Definitely Mr Grumpy here.

Is it in part that they are making programmes that will be padded out with adverts when sold to commercial channels, so the programmes end up being awkwardly short when shown without the ads ? Hence the extra padding bit on the end of most wildlife programmes about how they filmed it Or large amounts of self promotion.

The thing that annoys me is how on a quite news day, the news website is filled up with pseudo news stories which are in fact just adverts for their upcomming documentaries.
 
If anyone wants to make their views about the BBC heard beyond a bunch of chatty woodworkers, the BBC Trust is recruiting for its Audience Council

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/who_we_are/audience_councils/england/

They also want people to respond to specific questionnaires from time to time. These are in the same part of the website using links at the foot of the page I linked to.
 
mseries":2sahmhcr said:
mindthatwhatouch":2sahmhcr said:
...., why are we paying for everyone to go to University? ....

so they can earn higher salaries and pay more tax
I worked with people who had degrees in history, English, journalism, media studies, microbiology - they were receptionists, waiters and barmen...
 
Add to that 2 Chemistry Grads, one a Phd. Both in menial jobs. It's a little like the mantra about getting a very high quality CV done. Works on an individual level but in itself it doesn't really create any new jobs, it just means the lies get better. :D
 

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