Accurate table saw - £500?

[3Quid]

First post on the forum after much time spent reading. Hi!

The specific purpose for me buying a table saw is to produce wedges from oak boards that will be used in a lighting project I am doing. The focus for the work is accuracy over speed and/size. The finished workpieces will be fairly small (H 200mm, W 40mm D 50mm) and will be cut from boards ranging from approx 1.2m air-dried oak boards. I would also like that the saw be useful for various future tasks but this is my initial purpose for buying.

So, rightly or wrongly, I recently purchased an Axminster TS-200-2 based on reviews here and elsewhere. Budget is an issue at the moment so I saw this is as a machine that could get me up and running with a reasonable spec at a great price. I know you get what you pay for etc... but reality is I can't spend 1k+ on this right now (unfortunately!!).

Anyway, TS200 arrived. Bits missing, incorrect scale on fence rail, instructions detail steps for the TS250 in amongst the common steps without mention of it not applying to the TS200. Plus the machine had clearly been put together previously and no longer had it all its original packaging. Anyway, this isn't a tirade against Axminster. They delivered it promptly and have dealt with my issues quickly and politely. Short story, it's going back.

This leaves me with a problem - that being there aren't many options at this price. I'm pretty convinced that a cast iron table is something that should be at the top of my hit-list as accuracy is key. However, happy to be proved wrong.

So, budget increase! I am now looking at the Charnwood W619 £519 and the Xcalibur 10" Tilting Arbor £521 - sorry I can't post links.

I have a reasonable amount of space in my workshop but not vast. Budget-wise, the machines above are at the very top of my budget. I'm not against the idea of a used machine, but living in Cornwall, often secondhand stuff is so far away that the petrol/time costs and/or delivery/logistics rule them out.

I'm basically asking, based on the money I have and the tasks I need to perform, are these the best machines I can hope for (new)? If not, please could you suggest some alternative models?

As you can tell I'm quite new with all this so take it easy on me. Thanks for any help you can offer.

 

[RobinBHM]

Cutting 40mm or 50mm thick oak, is quite an ask on a budget machine. Also cutting a wedge shaped piece just 200mm long requires a well designed jig with good clamping, such as toggle clamps.

If a high degree of accuracy is needed, ideally a panel saw which has the sliding table running right next to the blade would be by far the best option.

Any saw you buy will need a new, quality blade for really clean cutting.

If I was machining wedges of those dimensions, I would probably consider using a router with a wealdon tools easitip cutter. Of course you would still need to the wedges oversize on a bandsaw.

Table saw or router, design and accuracy of the jig will be an important determining factor as quality, not just the machine.

I should point out, machining small, but thick sections, can be potentially dangerous. Jig design will be a key factor in safety.

 

[John15]

Wouldn't a bandsaw be more suitable, and cheaper too.

John

 

[3Quid]

Thanks for your input guys

Robin - thanks for the suggestion of panel saws. I'll look into that and also the idea of using the easitip router bit. Agreed that the jig is as much a part of the battle. Have you built jigs in the past for this kind of purpose?

John - interesting that you suggest a bandsaw. It's not something I thought was appropriate for the job but having done some searching after your post it seems it's a popular method. would you have any machine recommendations?

I'll go do some more research. Anyone have any experience of the table saws I mentioned in my op?

Cheers

 

[RogerP]

I have both a table and a band saw. To cut those small wedge shaped pieces I would use the band saw.

 

[Eric The Viking]

+1 for the bandsaw.

Mine, which is an old 12" SIP, would easily do that. It's all down to good blades (Tuff Saws) and fettling. You can get a surprisingly good finish off the saw, but realistically expect some planing or sanding to get to the final surface for finishing.

But it's safe, puts hardly any strain on the saw, is accurately repeatable, and above all easy to do.

 

[woodchip]

A bandsaw would probably suit this application better, but if you decide to go the table saw route then I'd buy a 2nd hand wadkin on ebay. Mine is 1962 and works perfectly.

 

[3Quid]

It seems that on top of the reasons I already had for sending the TS-200 back, another reason may be that it was't even the right type of tool!

Thanks to everyone for adding their voice and suggesting that a bandsaw is likely the way to go. I will probably learn my lesson and avoid the bottom-end of the range and aim for something a bit further up the scale. I'll look into the Tuff Saws blades too Eric.

If you had £450 to spend on a bandsaw to cut these wedges - what gets your vote?

 

[John15]

I only have the small Record bandsaw due to lack of space but a number of guys on here have the 300 and 400 models and seem very happy with them.

John

 

[PeteG]

Hello 3Quid I think you can forget the Xcalibur if you're looking at this page http://www.woodfordwm.co.uk/acatalog/Table_Saws1.html I believe this is their
old website and no longer used. I think this is the updated saw http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Table-Saw...cept-8-Dado-/161194203261?hash=item2587ec587d

I bought a Dewalt DW745 last month, appreciate it doesn't have a cast iron table but I've cut 50mm oak with the supplied blade without any problems, and it's accurate.
The rack and pinion fence is very nice and extends to 610mm should you need to cut any sheets.

 

[JakeS]

Beside the point if you're going with a bandsaw, but additionally: isn't the Charnwood W619 basically the same saw as the TS-200-2, just with different extrusions and a worse (more akin to the original TS-200) fence clamp?

 

[3Quid]

Yeh it definitely looks like bandsaw is the way to go. Looking at the Record Power BS300 currently. Anyone got other similar spec/price machine suggestions?

Thanks for the tips about the Charnwood and the Xcalibur machines. Xcalibur should probably take that site down if that's the case. As for Charnwood, it seems a lot of machines are based on the same hardware with different additions. Quite confusing for the newbie.

 

[Eric The Viking]

it seems a lot of machines are based on the same hardware with different additions. Quite confusing for the newbie.

We were discussing all this quite recently. Basically the woodworking machinery market is rather multi-faceted and complex. You don't, for example, have industrial "x-box" users buying the same kit that teenagers do, but there is that level of complexity for woody tool sales.

It's really tough for anyone to recommend a 'best machine for the job' as a consequence.

 

[graduate_owner]

I bought a Scheppach Ts250 a few years ago, complete with folding side table and sliding table for £650. I have been very pleased with it, although it does have quite a large footprint when everything is attached. The newer ones have cast iron tables, mine is aluminium. Nice machine all the same.

K

 

[Steve Maskery]

You can cut your wedges on either a bandsaw or a tablesaw. But at 50mm that is the max capacity of the TS200, whereas it's just a nibble for pretty much any bandsaw (assuming you are not looking at a 10" tabletop toy).

OTOH it is generally easier to get true, straight cuts with a TS; getting a BS to cut true requires rather more fettling, but worth it when you get it right.

S

 

[MikeJhn]

Just a quick note on second hand equipment, if you do buy something second hand on lets say e-bay you can send your own courier to collect and deliver to you, especially if the seller says collection only, this has become very cheap to do, as the competition is fierce with so may companies offering this service.

Mike

 

[RogerP]

Check that the seller will hand the goods to a courier as many sellers state "collection in person only".

 

[3Quid]

Thanks so much for all the advice. I'll do a bit more research on which machine whilst I'm waiting for my refund from Axminster and then order one up. Who knows, maybe a decent secondhand machine will pop up on the 'For Sale' board in the meantime. I'll add Scheppach to the list of possibles.

Yeh, I have asked a few about courier collection. Some are willing, some are not. Lucky dip in my experience.

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

At work we have a large bandsaw and tablesaw. I would definitely prefer to cut these wedges with the bandsaw rather than the table saw. The bandsawn wedges may well need cleaning up with a hand plane However if I were doing this in my shed at home I would use a rip cut 4tpi hand saw and a no 4 plane to tidy up. You can get a decent no 4 plane second hand for £20 or £30 pounds, you will also need a sharpening stone, I use a diamond a couple of diamond stones but a double sided oilstone is fine (£10) and if you are not practiced at sharpening use an ecplise style honing guide £10. As for the saw a hardpoint saw with the smallest tpi (tooth per inch), often described as first fix saws (toolstation, screwfix etc.£10-£15). You will also need a workbench or table with a vice of some kind There is some technique to learn (for example, always cut shy of your line and plane to the line) but this is true with a table saw or bandsaw. The cutting will take a little longer but you could have it done before the bandsaw is unloaded, unpacked, fitted with blade etc. Also these hand tools take up next to no room when you have finished. You will be left with a good £400 from your £500 budget, spent carefully this is easily enough to buy enough hand tools to allow you to perform any (well most) woodworking task.
If you have 100s to do then go the machine route but don't assume that machines will always be quicker, I do many operations with hand tools at work which could be done on machines because it is actually quicjer to do by hand. If you decide to try it with hand tools and are struggling post a question here on the hand tools forum and you will get many responses.
Another consideration is that handtools area lot safer, you can injure youself but you are unlikely to cut your finger off with a handsaw, table saws are demons.
Paddy

 

[TimberTaylor]

I recently bought the Bosch GTS10XC and folding stand from Axminster. Although it doesnt have a cast iron table the aluminum bed is pretty good and the price is reasonable. I dont have the luxury of a permanent work shop so everything has to be portable. It is a little on the heavy side compared to the DeWalt etc but its size, power and featyres have so far been impressive. It has plenty of power and some other nice features. It was reasonable out of the box and with a few tweaks was almost perfect. I have been munching through MDF, Ply and oak most weekends without any issues.I did change the blade straight away for a 40 tooth Excaliber one which so far is giving me nice clean cuts. The Bosch has an odd size mitre slot that doesnt accept the usual 3/4 guides however I have managed to knock up some pretty good sleds and guides out of some oak off cuts i had.