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silz

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Spectric

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Hi there

The governing factor is what size cable runs between the boards and how long is the run? If it is 2.5mm Csa then it could run from a 20 amp protective device, if it is 4.0mm Csa or more then a 32 amp protective device. Either way you could use a 16 amp socket on the basis that you will not be using multiple machines at the same time and cause a potential overload. The main issue is that any electrical work must be properly tested after installation to ensure the loop impedances are low enough to allow the protective device to disconect within the required time for your own safety. I can say that the Record PT107 on a 13 amp connection blows fuses on startup and needs the 16 amp connection as I have experienced.
 

Trevanion

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I can say that the Record PT107 on a 13 amp connection blows fuses on startup and needs the 16 amp connection as I have experienced.
I was wondering that because it's a 2.2kw machine, on something like a table saw with a 2.2kw motor you'll only just be able to run it off a 13A supply because there's barely any load whatsoever on start-up but with a PT you've got to take into account the large cutter block and the feed mechanism which need a lot of power to initially get moving.

Sebastian, I know you're not overly keen on secondhand machines but have you looked to see what's available locally?
 

silz

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Spectric

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Hi there

Because you buy it and don't find out until you plug it in by which time having moved the thing into it's final resting place you can't be pineappled to move it again so you get a 16 amp socket fitted. Cambridge may not be woodworker friendly but it used to have some great bookshops and I bet there is no issue with bicycle spares !
 

AJB Temple

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Frankly I would install suitable armoured cable run overground or along a fence from the consumer unit and get a proper supply in with small new consumer unit for lighting, 13amp ring and 16amp radial. As soon as you try to run decent machinery, like an extractor and a PT, tripping will drive you mad.
 

spb

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sadly Cambridge is not a woodworker friendly area, there's no lumber yards, no timber suppliers, nothing! The closest are in Huntingdon & Peterborough but that's another story
That's a bit more pessimistic than necessary - AC Timber just outside Ely are closer than either of those, and the two branches of Ridgeons have a (more limited) range of joinery grade hard and softwoods, not just the construction stuff. Ignore the website; ask someone in the yard what they've got.
 

Oddbod70

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It’s been a long time, and I’m not up on the current regulations (pre- 2008 16th edition was the last one for me) so be warned….

It’s a tiny job with a big potential hassle factor. You will almost certainly get “This consumer unit/earthing/protection isn’t up to current specs”. Potentially big bucks for a tiny job. That is probably why you are not getting much interest. If a spark’s been there and something nasty happens (even if not related) it’s a world of pain for them.

As per Spectric we don’t know enough about the wiring, but if it was installed properly, it’s difficult to see that it won’t be able to handle the 16A it’s protected to. It can draw that now via the double socket. If so, someone can just swap the 13A double socket for a blue 16A commando socket. I’m absolutely not saying you should do what some do and DIY it, but the swap is certainly not the most difficult thing a spark would do in a day.

Something like 240v 16 Amp 3 Pin Wall Socket - Blue, or 16A 230V Surface Interlocked Socket 2P+E IP44 would probably get fitted. I don’t think you actually need an isolator on it (but I may be wrong).
 

OldWood

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This is not much help to the OP I admit but I picked up an old Cooksley P/T recently and this uses seperate motors for the cutter head and thicknesser rollers. Ok the headache is that these are 3 ph 440vac motors but there are inverters available for 240vac single phase to 440vac 3 phase.

The interesting thing is that the cutter motor is 1.2kW for a 12" 3 blade head, and the thicknesse motor is less than 1kW, neither of which will challenge my nominally 13A supply.

I don't know if there are any modern machines that use this configuration.
Rob
 

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I don't know if there are any modern machines that use this configuration.
I think Sedgwick still use separate motors on their planers, for different rates of feed at the turn of a switch.

I'm not sure what the science is behind it but if you've got a machine that's available in single-phase and three-phase such as a Sedgwick MB the motors on the three-phase machine will be less KW than the single-phase one whilst out-putting the same or more power.
 

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topchippyles

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I think Sedgwick still use separate motors on their planers, for different rates of feed at the turn of a switch.

I'm not sure what the science is behind it but if you've got a machine that's available in single-phase and three-phase such as a Sedgwick MB the motors on the three-phase machine will be less KW than the single-phase one whilst out-putting the same or more power.
2 motors on my sedgwick
 

Spectric

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Something like 240v 16 Amp 3 Pin Wall Socket - Blue, or 16A 230V Surface Interlocked Socket 2P+E IP44 would probably get fitted. I don’t think you actually need an isolator on it (but I may be wrong).
Hi there

As far as I am aware going by the 17th regs you need an isolator but it will depends on the installation, ideally you would have a local board and run the 16amp socket from a 16/20 amp protective device on 2.5mm radial via an isolator, not good practice to use the socket for local isolation. If you want to run a 16 amp socket from the ring then you need a fused isolator otherwise the protective device would be 32 amps, you do not have the protection afforded by the fuse in the 13 amp plug.
 

AJB Temple

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18th regs apply, from 1/1/19. Agree with spectric (I am not a sparks). Electrician likely to say you need a dedicated radial supply for Part P sign off.
 

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Not going anywhere near any editions, :p but the advice above is not taking into account that the extraction needs to be running at the same time as the machine. So unless the extractor is plugged in at the house, the combination of both loads is way past any 13 amp plug limits.:cool:
 

deema

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Try finding a Sedgwick PT255. It’s a single motor, and will run off a 13A plug based on a few I’ve tinkered with and all did.
They are superb machines, far better IMO than virtually anything else is the category.
Fit Barke knives and that way always have sharp knives and the noise is drastically lower than with blunt blades that most DIY fixed knife PTs seem to run with due to the hassle of changing them. Barke knives simply drop in, no setting. They fit into existing fixed knife blocks. Carriers are expensive (stupidly so for what they are!) but far cheaper than swapping a block. Knives are at the mo. £22 for a set of HSS, but, they have two sides, so £11 a setup. That’s for a Sedgwick PT.
 

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Can I start by saying I'm not an electrician, but...
If there's a 16A breaker already, we have to assume the cable can handle 16A.
If the Record PT107 is sold with a 13A plug, we can assume it runs at less than 13A (Actually less than 7A if it's a 1.69Kw motor as specified - A fuse as we all know will blow more tslowly tan a circuit breaker).
Which leads me to think if people have had problems, it's probably the inital momentary load when the motor starts that is tripping the switch.
So wouldn't installing a 16A type B breaker solve the problem? It would still offer protection, but allows for the intial motor load when starting?
I stand by to be corrected... (But it did work on a feather plucking machine with exactly the same issues)
 

Oddbod70

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Hi there

As far as I am aware going by the 17th regs you need an isolator but it will depends on the installation, ideally you would have a local board and run the 16amp socket from a 16/20 amp protective device on 2.5mm radial via an isolator, not good practice to use the socket for local isolation. If you want to run a 16 amp socket from the ring then you need a fused isolator otherwise the protective device would be 32 amps, you do not have the protection afforded by the fuse in the 13 amp plug.
Hi Roy, I must admit I was assuming (a bad idea, I know 😊) that it was a twin socket on a 16A radial. It seemed the likeliest explanation. (Probably a bit of T&E 6” under the grass!)

Of course you are quite right about fitting a local CU being the best way to go if it’s practical.

Thanks for the update on an isolator being required from the 17th ed. I haven’t kept up – it feels like a new, and expensive, edition each year now.
 

Oddbod70

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Not going anywhere near any editions, :p but the advice above is not taking into account that the extraction needs to be running at the same time as the machine. So unless the extractor is plugged in at the house, the combination of both loads is way past any 13 amp plug limits.:cool:
OK, but the cable is protected with a 16A protective device. so you can draw 16A from the twin socket shared between 2 plugs. (In practice you’ll get away a with a bit more depending on the type of protective device - type A/B discussion above). The 13A fuse protects the cable to the machine, not the fixed installation.
 
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