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A little help on costing this project?

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Mattias87

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This is probably the biggest thing I've done and would be made out of 30mm finish Yellow Pine, I was asking for £1850 which I thought was reasonable. This included materials, making it, delivering it and assembling it. I was told that the price was totally unreasonable and wanted to see if I was that far off my estimations. There is also a shelf in the cupboard.
 

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Trevanion

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Walk away, if they’re moaning about that price they’re not worth the hassle.
 

Mattias87

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Yeah I think I will do. Thanks for the reply, that's given me a bit more confidence as I got really unsure about myself.
 

AJB Temple

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Your problem is that it is a simple design and unless it must be made to those exact dimensions to fit a given space, is easily comparable with equally simple designs from Ikea and the likes of oak furniture land, who will charge much less. The latter will also deliver. This comparison will be what drives their comment about your pricing I expect.

Yours will of course be a better product, but most people do not seem to perceive value in that.

To put this in perspective I recently bought a very large solid oak library cupboard, very similar in design to yours, though larger, but with adjustable shelves and carved doors. I bought it at auction for £300 inc fees and it cost £40 for them to deliver. It will be used in my workshop.
 

Sgian Dubh

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Mattias87":3kplsctl said:
made out of 30mm finish Yellow Pine ... I was told that the price was totally unreasonable and wanted to see if I was that far off my estimations.
I agree with your non-client ... totally unreasonable.
Solid softwood throughout? Purchased rough sawn, therefore needing machined true, edge jointed, etc? Solid softwood slab doors?

Hmm? Given all the above, if my guesses about materials are correct (given the relative paucity of information in your drawing, and your materials description), along with dealing with all the solid wood construction details that requires, rather than the simpler technical issues of relatively stable board materials, I guess you could easily be somewhere in the region of £2000 to £3000 light on your price.

I'd suggest to your non-client they take a trip to IKEA, or somewhere like that. Slainte.
 

HOJ

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You suggest you "wanted to see if I was that far off my estimations." I presume you costed it on a commercial basis, i.e. including overheads/profit etc, and not on "mates rate" The customer obviously had a cost in mind, I always ask if they have a budget/price in mind, which is not meant as an arrogant attitude, but has saved me in the past from time wasters.

If you have fully costed the project you should feel confident the price you offered is fair and reasonable, and if necessary you can show the customer the actual figures, (open book) which gives them reassurance you are not just profiteering.

And also bearing in mind the scale of the project as a whole, which would not be not be readily available "off the shelf" so to speak.

Not to ramble on, I always invite potential customers to our workshops, to show in some way the commitments we have made to operate a business, as I find they are generally oblivious as to what it takes and is needed in order to fulfill their expectations.

For example:

Clamps.jpg


I have been making a 3 meter long (in Oak MDF mind) shelve/bookcase in the run up to Xmas, for considerably more than you are charging.
 

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Doug71

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As said some people have no idea of the cost of bespoke joinery.

I priced up some built in wardrobes before Christmas for a customer, I asked what their budget was and they said they didn't really know. When I worked out a price for what we discussed it came to about £2,500, they said oh it's a lot more then we thought, we only wanted to spend about £1,000 :roll:

I made some for around their budget which were obviously more basic then we discussed.

It really helps if you have a budget to work to and can save you a lot of time when pricing.
 

woodbloke66

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Sgian Dubh":2buktmsn said:
Mattias87":2buktmsn said:
made out of 30mm finish Yellow Pine ... I was told that the price was totally unreasonable and wanted to see if I was that far off my estimations.
I agree with your non-client ... totally unreasonable.
Solid softwood throughout? Purchased rough sawn, therefore needing machined true, edge jointed, etc? Solid softwood slab doors?

Hmm? Given all the above, if my guesses about materials are correct (given the relative paucity of information in your drawing, and your materials description), along with dealing with all the solid wood construction details that requires, rather than the simpler technical issues of relatively stable board materials, I guess you could easily be somewhere in the region of £2000 to £3000 light on your price.

I'd suggest to your non-client they take a trip to IKEA, or somewhere like that. Slainte.
Agree with Richard here on this one; your price quoted was well under the mark; I would have also said somewhere between £3K and £5K. Bear in mind also that Yellow Pine is bloody horrible stuff to work and I've only seen it at Yandles as 'slash' sawn boards so it would probably require considerable further conditioning to ensure that the finished board size stayed flat in a centrally heated environment - Rob
 

will1983

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As a quick guess I would be in the £2500-£3000 mark for a sprayed MDF unit of that design.

I would steer them away from solid timber and point them in the direction of a nice oak veneered board instead. However if they insisted they wanted it in solid then I would have to add at least another £750 onto the price, possibly £1000 depending on the additional material cost.
 

sawdust1

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Yellow pine is nice to work with used it on many projects, but has large knots, you can get it in laminated boards which in your design is helpful.
Why 30mm, that to me is a bit thick, i would use 25mm.
I would suggest some T&G boards on the back to keep it all stable.
A simple calculation if i was making it :-
5 days labour @ £150 = £750
Materials = £500
Running workshop etc 5 days @ £50 = £250
Profit 1/2 labour = £375
Total £1,875
So you are on the mark with your price.
 

Jacob

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sawdust1":2nn1kqpz said:
Yellow pine is nice to work with used it on many projects, but has large knots, you can get it in laminated boards which in your design is helpful.
Why 30mm, that to me is a bit thick, i would use 25mm.
I would suggest some T&G boards on the back to keep it all stable.
A simple calculation if i was making it :-
5 days labour @ £150 = £750
Materials = £500
Running workshop etc 5 days @ £50 = £250
Profit 1/2 labour = £375
Total £1,875
So you are on the mark with your price.
Correction: may be on the mark for cost but double it for contingencies and add as much profit as you think it could bear.
 

oakfield

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I’ve been doing this type of work for about 15 years and I still always under price my work.
The big mistake I make is charging what I think is a reasonable amount that I would pay.
But then I have all the tools, equipment, experience, skills and design abilities that have taken 15 years and thousands of pounds to acquire. So of course I wouldn’t pay much for someone to do it for me, our customers in the other hand haven’t invested all that time and money so do need to pay sensible money for it.
Unfortunately, as mentioned above they tend to compare the price with what is available off the shelf but not the quality.
 

paulrockliffe

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The problem with the price is fundamentally that unless the product is sufficiently customised it's very hard for a customer to understand why the price is so much higher than something very similar that's mass-produced and to place enough value in the work.

I understand what materials cost and how much time would go into the project shown, but there's no way I'd be prepared to pay the asking price even though I know it's in the right ball park.

I can't tell if the sketchup image is just a rough sketch and there's more to the design, if there is perhaps consider adding more detail for your customer to better see what they're paying for. As it is it looks quite simple and generic, and you can get 95% of the way there by losing the bespoke dimensions for a fraction of the cost.

If it's that simple a product then it's just not going to be economic for most people to go bespoke and if it's not you're missing a trick by not selling the value you're adding over generic shop stuff.
 

Horsee1

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paulrockliffe":22dw530f said:
I can't tell if the sketchup image is just a rough sketch and there's more to the design, if there is perhaps consider adding more detail for your customer to better see what they're paying for.
I would advise against doing any more work for these people that you already have. More design work is more work, they already don't see the value in what you're offering them. Let them get something from Ikea and live in regret at their wobbly and ill fitting mistake.

I think your price is very reasonable.
 

Geoff_S

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4 cheapo kitchen base units with doors are going to cost at least £400!

Add in a worktop for at least £200.

Add in shelves and handles and a plinth.

Then add in all the upper shelving.

Sure, they could just about beat your price .... oh but then it all has to be delivered and assembled. And it isn't quite the right size.

And it would all be cheapo melamine faced MDF.

No, your price is a bargain and I wouldn't be phased by it as a customer.

Edit: I've just seen the height of it! It's a pity you're so far away in Lincoln :?
 

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