a handsaw mainly for crosscutting pine and sometimes oak

[J_SAMa]

hi all,
im looking to buy a hand saw for crosscutting pine and oak. im looking for a fine-toothed saw so i can do at least planing as possible. i really have NO CLUE what model/brand i should buy so please suggest some specific models if you can.
my budget is around 100 euros (80 gbp or so).
Sam

 

[Jacob]

Just buy any handsaw - if unsure don't spend more than say 15 euros. Fine teeth won't save you from planing. You are unlikely to be planing a crosscut surface in any case.

 

[Jelly]

What kind of thickness?

Unfortunately the tpi is primeraly dictated by the length of the cut: the longer the saw is in the wood, the more space you need to carry the sawdust through the wood and out.

Edit: Jacob has a good point, any hardpoint saw will do a fine job... and as you get the experience to decide what saw you'll want, you'll have a saw to use on plywood, old reclaimed wood and other nasty stuff

I can happily reccomend Tyzak sons and turner saws, if you see a good example on ebay it's worth a speculative bid or two...
In terms of new manufacurers Footprint (now Footprint Sheffield ltd) do good tools at even nicer prices, They seem to be difficult to source, but my favourite saw is from them.
Beyond that, Flinn Garlick (google them) have two or three ranges of saws for sale that would just about fit your price range; you may find some of them are available more locally to you (though if you were ordering online anyway, then ordering from them ought not incurr extra cost, as the UK and Germany are both part of the EEC).

Sorry for the sheffield-centric response... I'm afraid living in yorkshire has left me fiercly loyal to sheffield made tools.

 

[Jacob]

....
Sorry for the sheffield-centric response... I'm afraid living in yorkshire has left me fiercly loyal to sheffield made tools.

And why not? Have you been to the Kelham Island museum?
Old Spear & Jackson and Footprint are very good and also cheap thanks to being unfashionable.

Nice one (gone) here - a bit pricy as it has some original packaging. Still worth every penny though.

 

[Jelly]

....
Sorry for the sheffield-centric response... I'm afraid living in yorkshire has left me fiercly loyal to sheffield made tools.

And why not? Have you been to the Kelham Island museum?
Old Spear & Jackson and Footprint are very good and also cheap thanks to being unfashionable.

I don't get how handtool fashion works exactly... I've always suspected that Disstonmania is driven in part by the US-centric nature of the internet; I certainly struggle to see how the raw materials could be superior to our own!

I have visited the museum! A friend of mine went to uni in sheff and we seemed to make a habit of visiting the museum and then the equally excellent nearby public houses...

 

[bugbear]

I don't get how handtool fashion works exactly... I've always suspected that Disstonmania is driven in part by the US-centric nature of the internet; I certainly struggle to see how the raw materials could be superior to our own!

For a long time Disston proudly proclaimed their use of London steel!

BugBear

 

[Jelly]

I don't get how handtool fashion works exactly... I've always suspected that Disstonmania is driven in part by the US-centric nature of the internet; I certainly struggle to see how the raw materials could be superior to our own!

For a long time Disston proudly proclaimed their use of London steel!

BugBear

London, Ontario? or have the yanks been conflating London and England for longer than I think.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

....
Sorry for the sheffield-centric response... I'm afraid living in yorkshire has left me fiercly loyal to sheffield made tools.

And why not? Have you been to the Kelham Island museum?
Old Spear & Jackson and Footprint are very good and also cheap thanks to being unfashionable.

I don't get how handtool fashion works exactly... I've always suspected that Disstonmania is driven in part by the US-centric nature of the internet; I certainly struggle to see how the raw materials could be superior to our own!

I have visited the museum! A friend of mine went to uni in sheff and we seemed to make a habit of visiting the museum and then the equally excellent nearby public houses...

Kelham island museum and the Hawley collection should be a must for many people on here. Make sure to take tissues to clean up the drool afterwards. The splendid Fat Cat is very conveniently placed too. Not coincidentally incidently - the reason Sheffield became so well equipped with breweries was to quench the thirst developed by lifting 30kg crucibles of white hot steel (presumably whilst mildly drunk). The steel industry is also why there are a lot of birch trees in the local woods

Coming back to handsaws; Thomas Flinn is pretty much within a stone's throw of Kelham island. I bought one of their rip saws this year - it is good. Mind you, I also have a hardpoint crosscut saw from screwfix that works well enough too, and was a lot cheaper. But I also bought a file or two from Thomas Flinn, so their saw will hopefully be still doing work when the hardpoint saw is reduced to cabinet scrapers.

 

[GazPal]

London, Ontario? or have the yanks been conflating London and England for longer than I think.

Yep, they've been at it for quite a while :? They have London and Birming Ham everywhere over there, but thankfully not too many attempts at Sheffield.

I tend to float between using Spear & Jackson or Disston saws and think they're much the same in quality...... Both in terms of distant past and present examples. I honestly wish I could justify investing in a couple of saws from Thomas Flinn & Co., as I know their customer service and goods are excellent.

 

[J_SAMa]

Just buy any handsaw - if unsure don't spend more than say 15 euros. Fine teeth won't save you from planing. You are unlikely to be planing a crosscut surface in any case.

hi jacob,
what do you think about this one:
http://www.irwin.com/tools/handsaws/15- ... ne-cut-saw
is it possible for me to make a cheap saw work as good as higher-end saws by sharpening it? will i ruin the saw if i dont sharpen it carefully?

 

[Jacob]

Just buy any handsaw - if unsure don't spend more than say 15 euros. Fine teeth won't save you from planing. You are unlikely to be planing a crosscut surface in any case.

hi jacob,
what do you think about this one:
http://www.irwin.com/tools/handsaws/15- ... ne-cut-saw
is it possible for me to make a cheap saw work as good as higher-end saws by sharpening it? will i ruin the saw if i dont sharpen it carefully?

Perfect. Should arrive very sharp and, with hardened teeth, stay sharp for a long time. Will work better than most 'high end' saws. Not sharpenable - you just throw it away when it's blunt. There are lots similar , longer, different teeth etc.

PS that particular saw might be a bit on the light side (1mm thick like a DT saw) it all depends on what you actually want to cut. Just buy something similar from your nearest shed and it'll very likely be good. Don't pay more than say 15 euros.

 

[J_SAMa]

Perfect. Should arrive very sharp and, with hardened teeth, stay sharp for a long time. Will work better than most 'high end' saws. Not sharpenable - you just throw it away when it's blunt. There are lots similar , longer, different teeth etc.

yeah, i just noticed that the tri-ground teeth make the saw unsharpenable (at least not with a saw file)...
it seems hard to find a good, low-end regular-toothed (sharpenable) saw nowadays... ive looked at a lot of saws and all of them are tri-ground
also are stanley's fatmax saws worth taking a look?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stanley-515244- ... 956&sr=8-5
well, i know stanley isnt as good as it was before... but i cant really go THAT wrong with stanley can i?

 

[Jacob]

Perfect. Should arrive very sharp and, with hardened teeth, stay sharp for a long time. Will work better than most 'high end' saws. Not sharpenable - you just throw it away when it's blunt. There are lots similar , longer, different teeth etc.

yeah, i just noticed that the tri-ground teeth make the saw unsharpenable (at least not with a saw file)...
it seems hard to find a good, low-end regular-toothed (sharpenable) saw nowadays... ive looked at a lot of saws and all of them are tri-ground
also are stanley's fatmax saws worth taking a look?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stanley-515244- ... 956&sr=8-5
well, i know stanley isnt as good as it was before... but i cant really go THAT wrong with stanley can i?

Should be good.
Nearly all the cheap modern saws are un-sharpenable throwaways - but very sharp and cheaper to replace than pay for re-sharpening. Though I once bought a very cheap Draper DT saw which was blunt. It was only £2 or3 so that was the bottom of the barrel!
If you really want to sharpen yourself I'd buy an old 2nd-hand saw or two to practice on (don't pay more than say £10!), while you carry on woodworking with a nice sharp throwaway.

PS you could also buy the Paul Sellers book which has some of the best and clearest saw sharpening explanations I've seen. Expensive book, but together with a new throwaway saw, several old ones for practice, some good saw files, a saw set, could still be within your budget.

PPS I'd avoid 'high end' saws, you could be disappointed and frustrated. I boughtone of these a bit back. It's very unattractive - the ugliest saw handle I've ever seen, wasn't sharp and totally inferior to similar old Spear & Jacksons or Footprints - available at a fraction of the cost on ebay.

 

[GazPal]

If recommendations are what you seek and you've not yet settled on anything, Irwin JACK tenon saws are very reasonable, as I use them for site-work and I also use Spear & Jackson's PREDATOR hand saws.

 

[J_SAMa]

If recommendations are what you seek and you've not yet settled on anything, Irwin JACK tenon saws are very reasonable, as I use them for site-work and I also use Spear & Jackson's PREDATOR hand saws.

since you use a spear and jackson, do you know if this one can be sharpened:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Predator-B98SF- ... B001E19U96
if it can, i'll have a saw to practice sharpening on. in case i screw up, i wouldnt waste a saw thats too expensive

 

[RogerBoyle]

If recommendations are what you seek and you've not yet settled on anything, Irwin JACK tenon saws are very reasonable, as I use them for site-work and I also use Spear & Jackson's PREDATOR hand saws.

since you use a spear and jackson, do you know if this one can be sharpened:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Predator-B98SF- ... B001E19U96
if it can, i'll have a saw to practice sharpening on. in case i screw up, i wouldnt waste a saw thats too expensive

No its a typical throw away saw aimed at site workers and DIY guru's

 

[DTR]

since you use a spear and jackson, do you know if this one can be sharpened:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Predator-B98SF- ... B001E19U96
if it can, i'll have a saw to practice sharpening on. in case i screw up, i wouldnt waste a saw thats too expensive

No it cannot be sharpened (easily). It is not the shape of the teeth that prevents them from being sharpened; it is because the teeth are hardened. It is a good saw though.

edit: Mr Boyle beat me to it

 

[GazPal]

If recommendations are what you seek and you've not yet settled on anything, Irwin JACK tenon saws are very reasonable, as I use them for site-work and I also use Spear & Jackson's PREDATOR hand saws.

since you use a spear and jackson, do you know if this one can be sharpened:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Predator-B98SF- ... B001E19U96
if it can, i'll have a saw to practice sharpening on. in case i screw up, i wouldnt waste a saw thats too expensive

They're throw away saws that I'd seldom consider for resharpening, but your best bet - if you want to practise re-sharpening - is to buy an old saw from fleabay. Good pro quality Spear & Jackson saws crop up often and tend to go for very little. Keep an eye open for Spear & Jackson's "88", "Sovereign" and "Professional" saws, as they're nicely taper ground and hold their edges well, but be sure to buy ones with clean saw plates.

 

[Jelly]

since you use a spear and jackson, do you know if this one can be sharpened:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Predator-B98SF- ... B001E19U96
if it can, i'll have a saw to practice sharpening on. in case i screw up, i wouldnt waste a saw thats too expensive

No it cannot be sharpened (easily). It is not the shape of the teeth that prevents them from being sharpened; it is because the teeth are hardened. It is a good saw though.

edit: Mr Boyle beat me to it

To explain more fully, the teeth are hardened by applying a high frequency electrical pulse, creating a shockwave that achives a very high hardness on the surface of the material, harder in fact than most files hence the difficulty sharpening them... Saws treated in this way are easily identifed by the teeth being noticably darkened by the process.

 

[jimi43]

I don't get how handtool fashion works exactly... I've always suspected that Disstonmania is driven in part by the US-centric nature of the internet; I certainly struggle to see how the raw materials could be superior to our own!

For a long time Disston proudly proclaimed their use of London steel!

BugBear

Indeed...though not made in London...(quote from English Handsaw Making)

Saw blades were not marked with the type of steel until 1780 or so. A hand-saw blade stamped "Spring" and "London" meant it was of "London" quality (the best) and the steel was "spring" steel The "London Spring" marked saw was soon recognised as a top quality hand-saw.

...but the "best"....like London and all things south of Watford! :mrgreen:

Jim