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74 years ago today?

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Jonzjob

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yes 74 years ago today the war in Europe ended. Has there been any recognition in the news or radoi/TV? Non that I have read/seen/heard.

Doesn't it matter any more? Can't we celebrate the eand of all those years of death and destruction in that war?

Seems not! Very sad!
 

MikeG.

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We've fought hundreds of wars over the years. Do you want the end of each one of them celebrated every year? If not, why not?
 

CHJ

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I remember the local Street Party in Highters Heath Lane Birmingham and my first site of a Bus with lights on and decorated with lights that could not come down the road from Maypole Lane as it intended in the evening because of the tables blocking the road.

I also remember the giant bonfire built just over the road between the balloon barrage concrete anchor blocks and the smell of all the oil based camouflage paint from the factory up the road used to ensure it burnt with gusto.

One of the earlier experiences of my life that to this day moulds my view of current events.

Celebration may not be appropriate but I hope it's remembered and not dismissed.
 

devonwoody

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It was my grandmothers birthday, and oddly enough it started on one of my birthdays so we remember well in out family.
 

Chris152

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I think it's a good thing to remember the potential consequences of extremist politics in modern Europe, particularly as things stand today - our Europe isn't so remote from what it was in the 1930s.
 

MikeG.

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Jonzjob":2vkyqyec said:
Why not a celebration Chas? After all it was the end of the war here and that should be celebrated, on both sides.
So I ask again..........the end of which wars shouldn't be celebrated, and why?
 

AES

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My own take on this is a little different. I think "celebration" is most probably the wrong word - after all, only the winners get to celebrate, and regardless of what happened/who caused it, the loosers have/had no reason to celebrate - but certainly to remember.

As I now have some German family members (by marriage), my take on this is perhaps a little wider than some.

IMO "Remembrance" is the right word, and as we all know, the UK does have a Remembrance Sunday every year (as near as possible to 11th November). And a number of other countries have a similar remembrance too, though usually on other dates, triggered to other events more closely associated with "their own" war (e.g. the Nazi attack on Russia, July 1941; or The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour, December 1941).

The fact that the UK Remembrance Sunday is dated to remember the end of WWI does not alter the fact that the purpose of the UK Remembrance now is to recognize the fallen in ALL wars since, including WWII, Korea, the Falklands, and, and, and. In addition, 8th May 1945 was "only" VE day - there was another day later on to celebrate the end of the war with Japan ("VJ Day"; though I believe, it wasn't quite so "wild" in UK as VE Day).

But the fact that the UK Remembrance Sunday has long since been "opened up" to cover the dead and missing in ALL wars since WWI (as above) should, IMO, answer Mike G's question, and personally I see no reason to add any further "celebration" dates.

Regarding the BBC, ITV, press, etc, they had a plethora of programmes and special features to commemorate both 100 years from the start of WWI (in 2014) and the end (2018), and no doubt they will do the same in 2039 (100 years since the start of WWII) and again in 2045 (the end of WWII).

Personally I don't think that there's anything particularly special about the fact that WWII ended 74 years ago on 8th May, except for the fact that being born on 28th April 1945, I was taken out of hospital by my Mum on 8th May 1945 (apparently they used to keep Mums and new born babies in hospital for a bit longer than the current general practice). :D

With respect to all in any way involved with any of it - or not.

Edit for P.S. I should of course added Gulf I & II & Afghanistan to the above- AND the fact that TV & Radio covers both the Cenotaph and Royal Albert Hall Remembrance annual events fully.
 

MikeG.

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Well said AES.

I'd add that if you have individual celebrations/ remembrance days for the end of individual wars, you either have to have them for all wars or else you necessarily create a class of dead who aren't as worthy of thanks or celebration. If you celebrate the end of WW2, but not the Zulu wars, or the Boer wars, or some of the Indian wars, for instance, you automatically elevate the dead of the former as more important than those of the latter. And then how far back do you go? And how revisionist do you get? Do we celebrate Agincourt, the 100 years wars, Banockburn, the Crusades? Where does that end? Far better to say that all of our war dead are remembered with one special day a year, and that they are therefore all equal, whatever the rights and wrongs, importance or otherwise, of the wars in which they fought.
 

deema

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There have only been two world wars that I’m aware of. No other conflicts have involved so many. To celebrate the end of WW2 is totally appropriate and shouldn’t be forgotten. The overthrow of a genocidal maniac under whose dictatorship not only slaughtered millions in warfare but also millions of Jews in the gas chambers should not be something put down to ‘just another war’.

Switzerland stood by and allowed evil to grow and develop and worst still its banks capitulated in hiding stolen money for the Germans. Not a reputation that is something I’m sure I would be proud of and I’m sure in their position I’d like it to be forgotten too!

There is a rise in intolerance and nationalism which is the breeding ground for extremism.

We should remember, celebrate and be thankful for all those who have fought and paid the ultimate sacrifice in our behalf.
 

Droogs

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But we do that on Rememberance Sunday each year deema. Yes the cenotaph was for the fallen of the Great War but has now become the defacto memorial for all the fallen of the UK. there is no need for any other specific day/s as this would dilute the importance of 11/11 as a day of national mourning. Yes yesterday was the end of a war against 1regime, but it was not the end of WW2. That would not happen for several months, it was only the end of combat operations in one theatre of a global war. Unless of course you feel that the war against Germany's ally Japan does not have the same importance or signifigance as that in Europe. Combined these 2 regime's actions caused the deaths of roughly 40 million people worldwide and should be remembered for being evil, that is why we are taught about these events at school. but that does not mean they should replaceor supplement the 11th. Please remember the UK since 1707 has fought 230 wars, should they each have their own special day?
 

AES

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deema wrote: Switzerland stood by and allowed evil to grow and develop and worst still its banks capitulated in hiding stolen money for the Germans. Not a reputation that is something I’m sure I would be proud of and I’m sure in their position I’d like it to be forgotten too!
:

Mod edit: quote option enabled

The fact that I write as a current resident and citizen of Switzerland (citizen since 1999 please note!) I very much HOPE that in your above you were NOT pointing a finger at me personally deema!

What you say is largely true deema, but it's by no means the full story. I have NO particular axe to grind re the Swiss and their actions and decisions during WWII (as already said, I was born in 1945 and my wife in 1941, so neither of us were actively involved!) but whilst it is perfectly true that while there are both definite specific episodes and general actions in WWII that the Swiss should be ashamed of (especially the banks, but then again, what's new there about banks' "morality" in ANY country?), it is also perfectly true to say that some, mainly individuals or small groups, stepped a long way over the line to assist escapees from Hitler's Germany for example. In some cases those individuals were punished (in some cases even serving jail terms) only to be subsequently "pardoned" and then even officially honoured years later. A particular case springs to mind concerning a high ranking Swiss policeman based near St. Gallen (one of the biggish towns near the German border). Sorry I forget that bloke's name but there were several others too, including a group that ran an operation very similar to Schindler's list from both inside and outside Germany.

I do agree however, that in comparison, these Swiss anti-Nazi activities were in the minority compared to the "keep your head down and take whatever profit's going" majority. Nevertheless, it wasn't all black, and since you chose to bring the point up deema, you shouldn't forget that ther was a positive part too. However, the Swiss do NOT "celebrate" the end of either WWI or WWII, and as you say, perhaps rightfully so.

However deema, what all that's got to do with JonzJob's OP I don't know.

But IF your comments about the Swiss WERE aimed at me personally, then as an ex serving RAF bloke who never got involved in any shooting during his service (thank God) but who would have done if so ordered (just like any other serviceman), then as I say, IF your comment was aimed at me personally then I take most rooted objection to you comments Sir.

And BTW, although you are correct to say there were "only" two world wars, I GUESS that if the sums are added up correctly to include all the refugees and "innocent bystanders" involved, I doubt that you are correct when you state that no other "war" has involved so many people. How about today's refugees situation (world wide)??

Edit for P.S.
1. Thanks to whichever Mod it was who "enabled" the "official" Forum quote system. The reason I didn't use that was because, for me anyway, it doesn't always work correctly, especially when trying to quote only one part of a previous post. As said, that may very well be may fault, but anyway, what I did post with the quote in "QUOTES" was I thought, perfectly clear. But thanks anyway. :D

2. @deema: Re-reading my post above it is possible that I was being over-sensitive and that you were not in fact, pointing a finger at me personally. If that is the case then I unreservedly apologise.
 

Marineboy

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MikeG.":wk74ppe5 said:
Well said AES.

I'd add that if you have individual celebrations/ remembrance days for the end of individual wars, you either have to have them for all wars or else you necessarily create a class of dead who aren't as worthy of thanks or celebration. If you celebrate the end of WW2, but not the Zulu wars, or the Boer wars, or some of the Indian wars, for instance, you automatically elevate the dead of the former as more important than those of the latter. And then how far back do you go? And how revisionist do you get? Do we celebrate Agincourt, the 100 years wars, Banockburn, the Crusades? Where does that end? Far better to say that all of our war dead are remembered with one special day a year, and that they are therefore all equal, whatever the rights and wrongs, importance or otherwise, of the wars in which they fought.
Where indeed does it/should it end? We seem to be increasingly celebrating anniversaries of the start of wars, end of wars, starts and ends of individual battles, natural disasters, man-made disasters (eg mass shootings) etc. And the anniversaries are not just the obvious ones, ie 50 years, 75 years etc but 100 days, one year, two years, 30 years and so on. The more of these commemorations there are, the more scope for them to become devalued and lose their significance. I guess it is linked to the prevalence now of public displays of grief, remorse and so on, kicked off by the Dianafication phenomenon, and now culminating in the appearance of mass shrines at the roadside whenever some personal tragedy occurs like a RTA, a knifing, an abduction etc. How people who never knew the victims of such awfulness can become so emotionally involved and write mawkish messages on bouquets/teddy bears/football shirts etc escapes me.

And of course, social media doesn't help.
 

treeturner123

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Just to be historically accurate, Deema

There have been at least two other wars which spanned the world, both involved GB verses France!!!

Firstly the 7 Years War - 1756 - 1763 where there was fighting in all the main continents other than Australia. Particularly important were the conflicts in India and North America

Secondly the Napoleonic Wars where again, there was fighting over most continents. Though to be fair, it was mostly in Europe and the oceans around the world.

Phil
 

Geoff_S

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Anyone been to the National Memorial Arboretum?

So many different memorials. But for me the most poignant was the one with so many names carved in stone, next to blank stones awaiting names to be carved.
 

Noel

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Wonder how much the forthcoming D-Day events will cost? Not to mention Trump's visit to it (and you can guess what Trump will think the "D" stands is for....). One event a year in November or whenever, is surely suffice. Get the schools, NHS, homelessness and a fortune of others issues covered before spending funds on less than necessary events.
 

Jonzjob

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48565417

Why should we not celebrate the definate end of bombs being dropped on the U.K.? I too was born in the wat, 1944, in NW London, so I believe that I should like to celebrate it.

There were an untld total of the German people who also have reason to celebrate the end of their own bombing experiences too and so many of them did not want war at any time. My parents used to have a couple of German prisorers of was around for Sunday dinner. Both young and who had given themselves up to the Allies as soon as they could. One of them was in the army because his brother had refused and was shot.

So yes, the Germans had just the same righ to celebrate at the stopping of the killing. Or did they enjoy it perhaps?
 

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