2012 Challenge , suggestions / Improvements ?

[monkeybiter]

2012...I'm in!
Judging...working well as is, esp. in Sept.
I think the 'three pieces of wood' rule could be relaxed/increased and still exclude segmented work. This would allow for 'adornments' of various kinds, eg. three legs on a bowl etc.
I do think that on the more difficult months the less able/confident entrants need to be considered. It might be hard without 'dumming down' the challenge, but eventually there could be a tipping point when the difficulty reduces the number of entrants significantly. Maybe on a 'difficult month' there could be a second easier option offering three and four points [second/first] and five and six points for the difficult. That [or similar] wouldn't be too complicated but would give everybody a way in without having to run two competitions.

 

[gus3049]

2012...I'm in!
Judging...working well as is, esp. in Sept.
I think the 'three pieces of wood' rule could be relaxed/increased and still exclude segmented work. This would allow for 'adornments' of various kinds, eg. three legs on a bowl etc.
I do think that on the more difficult months the less able/confident entrants need to be considered. It might be hard without 'dumming down' the challenge, but eventually there could be a tipping point when the difficulty reduces the number of entrants significantly. Maybe on a 'difficult month' there could be a second easier option offering three and four points [second/first] and five and six points for the difficult. That [or similar] wouldn't be too complicated but would give everybody a way in without having to run two competitions.

This is my second try at an answer to this - the first one disappeared somewhere :shock:

I'm not sure a split is a good idea as it will offer the opportunity for an inventive reduction of experience!! I'm a new turner, I'll enter the easy bit. Probably best to keep it simple.

Having said that, we definitely need a way to keep the numbers up. Whilst I am only too happy to have won this month, I am very aware that it was from a pool of fifteen rather than the fifty plus that had said they would be joining in. Strange that so many new people asked to join and then made no effort at all and that one person just entered one month, won it and disappeared.

I wonder why so many did drop out. I accept that there will be a natural tailing off of the initial enthusiasm and work gets in the way sometimes but that so many should disappear seems strange. Anyway, the hardcore seem to be continuing so that at least is good. Hopefully, the general interest in the challenge will generate a few new entrants this year.

 

[monkeybiter]

I'm not sure a split is a good idea as it will offer the opportunity for an inventive reduction of experience!! I'm a new turner, I'll enter the easy bit. Probably best to keep it simple.

I totally agree about avoiding a split, that was the idea behind making it an occasional option, with fewer points available. It would allow a complex challenge now and then but without putting off some. There's probably a better solution but I think it's worth thinking about.

 

[Steven]

Put me down for 2012.

I started turning about Christmas (actually the lathe was from Santa) and have been watching this year with interest and spent my year saying I could have done that or I wish I could do that, so now it's time to put my money were my mouth is.

One comment I have not used yet is "I could have done better" =D>

 

[gerrybhoy70]

Not having yet entered any challenges, I can't really make too much of a comment about the rules except that they appear to run well enough.

Please add my name to the 2012 list, as I'll be entering next year's challenges (provided the wrist heals up properly in time).
Not really expecting to win, but as a relative beginner to woodturning it'll give me much needed practice and a new level of improvement to aim for.

Gerry

 

[Melinda_dd]

Please put me down for next year mr blister sir. With the new lathe just round the corner that should keep me going for a while.
Same as this year, I will be aiming for my 12 points!
I would be willing to contribute too.

With regards to the rules, I think they are fine as they are. I'm not sure I would change anything.
What i did think was excellent was 'bob' who when I wasn't sure on how to do a month's challenge was more than willing to pop a video on to help. =D> fab

the new points sound good to.

Lastly a huge thank you to all involved in the running, arranging and refereeing this excellent change, the thing that keeps my mind sane at work all day!

 

[duncanh]

I'll enter again, as it gives me the chance to try new stuff - been turning for a while now but never previously tried egg cups, goblets, toys.

I've always wondered about the exclusion segmented of segmented work - most of the segmented work I see isn't that impressive. Yes, it's a technical achievement to get the pieces cut and arranged in a certain pattern but the actual shapes and turnings often aren't that impressive. A lot of segmented turning I find fairly ugly!

 

[gus3049]

I've always wondered about the exclusion segmented of segmented work - most of the segmented work I see isn't that impressive. Yes, it's a technical achievement to get the pieces cut and arranged in a certain pattern but the actual shapes and turnings often aren't that impressive. A lot of segmented turning I find fairly ugly!

Oh how I agree with you.

Most are a technical exercise and the maker seems to lose sight of the fact that this is an art just as much as a craft. Some of course are brilliant and make good use of the segments as a part of the design rather than the whole of it.

 

[jumps]

I've always wondered about the exclusion segmented of segmented work - most of the segmented work I see isn't that impressive. Yes, it's a technical achievement to get the pieces cut and arranged in a certain pattern but the actual shapes and turnings often aren't that impressive. A lot of segmented turning I find fairly ugly!

Oh how I agree with you.

Most are a technical exercise and the maker seems to lose sight of the fact that this is an art just as much as a craft. Some of course are brilliant and make good use of the segments as a part of the design rather than the whole of it.

I also agree with what Duncan and you are saying - in many ways it's a parallel with the focus we had on 'wood'.

Segmented pieces are far from inherently at an advantage - but the steps taken to exclude them have ruled out many legitimate approaches.

This challenge has no such restrictions - so it will be interesting to see what transpires.

 

[Wood spoiler]

There is a sage like expression - KISS

Keep it simple, stupid

To do simple well is better than complex cock up.

I keep remembering Masterchef and the number of contestants that have said there soufflé will triumph because .... Only to add to the list of disaster soufflés

If you can do complex and carry it off good on yer, but the joy of the challenge this year has been well executed simple forms have and will continue to excel, because good simple - read classic, well executed will always look good. And this is why beginners can always compete well

Anything in the arty department is always more subjective and in the eye of the beholder.

This was proved right this month. Dennis's classy well made simple vase came second beating many an overworked piece, my own included.judges comment - not sure about the walnut foot

 

[RATWOOD]

Please put me down for next year Mr Blister Sir

 

[Blister]

Please put me down for next year Mr Blister Sir

OK Chris

 

[steadyeddie]

Hi Blister

Count me in for next year. Due to other commitments, I may not be able to get an entry ready every month, but I will try. If the standard of this years competition is anything to go by, getting more than the 1 point will be a feat in itself. If all else fails, Richard Findley's workshop isn't far from me. I can always nip round & bung him a few quid :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dave

 

[Blister]

Hi Blister

Count me in for next year. Due to other commitments, I may not be able to get an entry ready every month, but I will try. If the standard of this years competition is anything to go by, getting more than the 1 point will be a feat in itself. If all else fails, Richard Findley's workshop isn't far from me. I can always nip round & bung him a few quid :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dave

Noted

 

[gregmcateer]

Please Sir, Mister Blister,
Can you add my name for 2012?
And can I submit something this year, even though I haven't done anything till now?
Yours nervously,
Greg

 

[Blister]

Please Sir, Mister Blister,
Can you add my name for 2012?
And can I submit something this year, even though I haven't done anything till now?
Yours nervously,
Greg

Done

 

[Wood spoiler]

I have just gone back to the first page of Blister's summary of where discussion is going.

There is still a question open saying should the wood affect outcome.

As a personal view, I don't see how it can not be. It is the very thing that gives "life" to what we produce. Grains, faults, inclusions, bark etc are all the things wihich make what we produce so interesting compared to say pottery.

Poor judgement in picking an unsuitable wood for the project attempted is all part of the learning curve - and in a competition rightly should impact on the judges ability to "Judge". Equally a fantastic piece of wood worked sympathetically is a classic case of "less is more" You can look at last months entries to see that. Dennis's vase was fantastic because what he produced was enhancing a lovely piece of wood.

If you look back through any photos you will find examples of where the grain can "fight" with the design and as a consequence the end piece which may be technically brilliant just looks too "busy" and becomes instantly forgettable. An expensive exotic blank can be ruined as easily as more common native species and vice versa.

So for what it is worth, and in my opinion, the Judges should be free to judge the items as presented with wood being the vital component of the choices we make and assessed accordingly.

 

[Blister]

I have just gone back to the first page of Blister's summary of where discussion is going.

There is still a question open saying should the wood affect outcome.

As a personal view, I don't see how it can not be. It is the very thing that gives "life" to what we produce. Grains, faults, inclusions, bark etc are all the things wihich make what we produce so interesting compared to say pottery.

Poor judgement in picking an unsuitable wood for the project attempted is all part of the learning curve - and in a competition rightly should impact on the judges ability to "Judge". Equally a fantastic piece of wood worked sympathetically is a classic case of "less is more" You can look at last months entries to see that. Dennis's vase was fantastic because what he produced was enhancing a lovely piece of wood.

If you look back through any photos you will find examples of where the grain can "fight" with the design and as a consequence the end piece which may be technically brilliant just looks too "busy" and becomes instantly forgettable. An expensive exotic blank can be ruined as easily as more common native species and vice versa.

So for what it is worth, and in my opinion, the Judges should be free to judge the items as presented with wood being the vital component of the choices we make and assessed accordingly.

Colin

With next years challenges we will again have a standard bowl / platter with NO NO NO to piercing texturing coloring etc , But I think we need to be cautious as to how much affect the wood choice has on the judging , I don't want to end up in a he or she who pays £40 for a blank wins as some member can afford and are willing to spend that amount and other are not so willing , So I would suggest that the Judge would be free to comment on the choice of wood if it enhances the workpiece but not be swayed into a decision of wood choice over design as workmanship :wink:

 

[monkeybiter]

I agree with Wood spoiler that wood choice is fundamental to the design and sometimes the execution of a piece. Blister is also right that the comp should try to be a level playing field without favouring financial input. But how the hell a judge manages to consider the design and turning quality without being swayed by the wood I don't know, a very difficult task I think.

 

[Wood spoiler]

But how the hell a judge manages to consider the design and turning quality without being swayed by the wood I don't know, a very difficult task I think.

.... and that is why I am happy to be an entrant and not a judge.

But with the questions being asked now - now is the time to pass on our comments. What ever form a competition takes there will always be something that someone disagrees about. But with an open forum debate it does ameliorate the contentious and hopefully where when it comes to judging only the agreed woodturning issues matter. If everyone knows the goal they are aiming for it's fine it's when as they say in all the best cliches "the goalposts are moved" the "goodwill" goes.