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By transatlantic
#1255116
Supply and demand, surely?

If enough people do the right thing, demand goes down, supply goes down.

Although I do appreciate that in some cases, forestry is being cut down for other means (mostly farming as far as I know).
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By Lons
#1255118
Personally I wouldn't buy endangered woods for any sizeable project however it's sometimes tempting to ignore that for small items such as a pen blank though I do try as it's easy to find heavily figured alternatives.

That said, I have a pretty large collection of hard to obtain wood, most of which is at least 30 - 40 years old so have more than enough for my needs for the rest of my life and see absolutely nothing wrong in using that stock, what would I do otherwise, throw it on the fire? :roll:
Same applies to reclaimed furniture, it's there already and a resource that would be criminal to waste whether a currently controlled species or not.

I don't agree with Sunny Bobs general comment but understand where he's coming from, it's a much more complicated matter than just woodworkers changing habits and what we do in our small way won't change the Asian practices or the UK public from buying cheap overseas furniture made from materials of dubious origin.
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By MikeG.
#1255120
sunnybob wrote:........ If the alternative for the locals is to starve......


It isn't. This is a false choice. Africans aren't starving, albeit in some war zones there are issues about food availability. Bushmeat is a sort-after middle-class product. There's plenty enough beef and chicken produced in Africa such that bushmeat isn't a necessity. Much of Africa relies on fish for protein, as it has for millennia.
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By Lons
#1255122
MikeG. wrote:
sunnybob wrote:........ If the alternative for the locals is to starve......


It isn't. This is a false choice. Africans aren't starving, albeit in some war zones there are issues about food availability. Bushmeat is a sort-after middle-class product. There's plenty enough beef and chicken produced in Africa such that bushmeat isn't a necessity. Much of Africa relies on fish for protein, as it has for millennia.


One of the things I noticed when in South Africa is there wasn't any sign of road kills, the locals told me that it isn't just the wildlife that picks it up but the local people as well :)

I saw a lot of people I wouldn't wish to meet in a dark place but little evidence of real poverty even around the shanty town outside Cape Town there was food and reasonably clothed residents, just the accommodation that was dire.
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By MikeG.
#1255123
sunnybob wrote:.......... I have seen what a large herd of elephants can do to crops and surprisingly even trees, where they eat only the small new shoots at the top of the tree, but snap the branches in half to get to them..........


I don't know why you're talking about elephants. There are hundreds of other species being poached every day of the week.

BTW, elephants are down to less than 3% of their numbers from only 100 years ago, when they were already in sharp decline due to ivory hunting. They weren't causing destruction of woodland then, despite being far, far more numerous, because they weren't concentrated in year-round isolated pockets, but free to migrate. On the contrary, woodland back then was in fine shape, despite vastly more elephants. Africa is shaped by elephants, not destroyed by them. And if you are surprised that elephants eat trees, I really have no words in response. (They don't only eat the small shoots, either.)
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By MikeG.
#1255127
phil.p wrote:millions of trees of course grew from seeds spread in elephant dung ... :D


There are a number of tree species whose seeds won't germinate unless they've been through an elephants digestive system.
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By whiskywill
#1255190
phil.p wrote:That's why you can buy oddly shaped little blocks of blackwood - they're sold a clarinet bell blanks.


So that's why Yandles sell rectangular turning blanks (which I assumed was ebony ) with one end chamfered.
By Inspector
#1255202
I'm in the world is overpopulated camp. Everyone gets fixed after one child and that's it until the population is down to a billion then it is two and you get fixed to maintain at that number. Plenty for a viable civilization and not so big that the earth can't regenerate itself from our consumption. We are the smartest animal by far but too stupid to realize we are overgrazing our place.

As for the wood I won't buy anymore wood on the Cities list as much as I would dearly love to unless it is from old stock a fellow woodworker had before passing on. I'll use up what I have, some of which I bought in the late seventies.

Pete the party pooper. :wink:
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By transatlantic
#1255319
Inspector wrote:We are the smartest animal by far but too stupid to realize we are overgrazing our place.


We're not too stupid, it's just that the people who can actually make a difference just don't care. Which is probably far worse.
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By Lons
#1255335
transatlantic wrote:
Inspector wrote:We are the smartest animal by far but too stupid to realize we are overgrazing our place.


We're not too stupid, it's just that the people who can actually make a difference just don't care. Which is probably far worse.

=D> =D>
By Beau
#1255338
transatlantic wrote:
Inspector wrote:We are the smartest animal by far but too stupid to realize we are overgrazing our place.


We're not too stupid, it's just that the people who can actually make a difference just don't care. Which is probably far worse.


Not sure about this myself.

What are all the leaders supposed to do? Bet if they made the choices we need for our environment they would be out of power before they knew what had happened. So UK you can only have one child each, you cant fly abroad, you should only eat local food etc. Can you imagine the uproar. No it's down to each and everyone of us to make the hard calls. If enough of us took these steps the powers that be would see they might get some backing but in our current greedy and selfish society there is no chance.
By samhay
#1255373
This has certainly divided opinion.
Some time ago I decided not to use or go out of my way to buy stuff containing new tropical hardwood. I don't know enough about most of the supply chain to be able to judge whether the certification exists and/or is not forged. I'm happy to let others make their own call.

I will happy reclaim such timber from existing furniture, etc and wouldn't feel too upset about using up existing stocks of ones personal supply - the tree's already been cut down, and if you aren't buying any more then where's the additional harm.

Also, there is plenty of alternatives. Who needs rosewood, mahogany, etc when there is walnut and maple and oak and the fruitwoods and etc, etc.