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By Mutley Racers
#1284603
Love this site and this thread. Lots of useful info but still I am confused.

Finally, I am managing to get some cash in to think about the workshop/studio build for me and the wife. Looking on the planning portal last night I see to be higher than 2.5 metres I need to be 2 metres away from the boundary. For the shed the size we would like it would take up a fair bit of our garden (290m2) with other plans and 3 kids need space to expend their energy.

So, does anyone know if a workshop can be a single storey extension to the property? Not really what I want as I want a shed but it does not need planning and I can go up 4 metres and out 8 metres (as long as no neighbours complain) . I would like to convert the garage into a utility and leave an access on the right (looking from the van photo) to walk to the workshop with sheet materials etc.

The property is on a slope and so where do you start your level from or do you just add steps. The floor of the garage and roof of the garage would need to be raised to get into the house from the utility and so on. Any way, it is all rather quite overwhelming. I wanted this to be a project I could do myself but an extension would be asking too much.

One more question, as we are on a slope, the rear of the house has a large fall to the garden. On the planning portal it says you cannot build a deck higher the 30cms off the ground. So do I have to build this deck this height and then steps down onto this? There used to be a deck and concrete verandah all the way around as you can see from the dodgy conservatory.

Any advice appreciated.

Regards Lee
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By MikeG.
#1284628
Oooh, interesting one. I've never thought of that.

As far as I recall, there is nothing in the Permitted Development stuff which defines the use of house extensions. However, you might run into Building Regulations issues for a number of reasons. I think I'm right in saying that such an extension would be controllable, so would have to be built to BR......thus building as per my details (linked to in my signature) wouldn't be possible, and the foundations would need to be full depth etc. Add on the inspection fees, and this would be an expensive route to go down compared to building an independent lightweight structure.

Don't be shy of a planning application. Design the shed you want, rather than the shed which falls within PD, drop it on here and we'll see what the best way forward is.
By Mutley Racers
#1284632
MikeG. wrote:Oooh, interesting one. I've never thought of that.

As far as I recall, there is nothing in the Permitted Development stuff which defines the use of house extensions. However, you might run into Building Regulations issues for a number of reasons. I think I'm right in saying that such an extension would be controllable, so would have to be built to BR......thus building as per my details (linked to in my signature) wouldn't be possible, and the foundations would need to be full depth etc. Add on the inspection fees, and this would be an expensive route to go down compared to building an independent lightweight structure.

Don't be shy of a planning application. Design the shed you want, rather than the shed which falls within PD, drop it on here and we'll see what the best way forward is.


Thanks for the reply. Been having issues sending pictures.
By Mutley Racers
#1285384
We would prefer to have the shed on the back fence as that way our garden doesn't lose much shade. I would like it to be 4 metres to the top so this would mean planning permission is needed.

Has anyone applied for planning permission on their build which is close to a fence and a decent height? Is is a 50/50 chance?

Cheers
User avatar
By MikeG.
#1285387
It's very difficult to compare like that. It is going to depend on relationships to other buildings, neighbours' patios, etc, and these things vary with every different house/ circumstance. Ask yourself if your proposed building adversely affects your neighbour in any way. Does it cast shadow where they don't want it? Will the noise affect them sitting out on a summer evening. Does it spoil a view? My experience is that these sort of things are usually uncontentious, but occasionally they run into all sorts of problems. My general advice is that people are unnecessarily wary of planning applications.

The first thing you should do, if you aren't planning on employing an architect/ technician immediately, is to draw a scale plan of your property, and your neighbouring properties, and add your proposed shed in. There are plenty of sort-of free mapping resources online, and a screengrab from one of those can be a useful starting point for the exercise. Post your drawing here and you'll get a comment or two, no doubt.
By Mutley Racers
#1285581
Hi Mike

Thanks for the reply.

When we bought the house you couldn't see any of the houses at the back fence as conifers covered the area. So the neighbours should be happy. Sound wise it is only a hobby so not much noise. In your shed, is the sound still quite loud with the insulation etc from outside?

We are planning on getting proper plans made up. You said you could possibly do it from photos as I am far from you. First though we need to determine the best location for the shed due to shade, future landscaping possibilities and house renovations. Wow, it really is hard to plan ahead as we want to do so much down the line with the space but not quite sure what.

Sometimes I think just knocking down all the buildings and and putting in a hauf hause would be better. But, that's a lot of cash just to get rid of the rubble!!!
User avatar
By MikeG.
#1285587
It is certainly possible to do things from a distance, with digital site mapping available and so on. However, I am a little busy trying to fit stuff in before my summer break. I doubt I could look at your project until the second half of August.
By DoctorWibble
#1285616
Building right on the boundary is unlikely to be allowed for a bunch of reasons. Not least you'd need access to neighbours gardens for construction and maintenance. Then there are shading considerations: boundary construction rather obviously solves your problem at the expense of your neighbours. Then there are fire hazards : the old rules about being a metre from fences (now two metres) specifically referred to combustible structures. You might get permission to build a little closer than two metres in non combustible brick if the height/roof line is neighbour friendly and you have not presented the neighbours with the long wall of a an outlandishly large building but expect planning to be wary and conscious that other people in the area may copy you.
The permitted development height is calculated from the surrounding (natural) ground level. So if you really want to stretch the height rules you could always sink the shed floor. Its a lot of digging and you'd need to be very careful about arranging effective drainage, retaining walls and so forth but you could gain an extra foot or so in internal height this way without falling foul of planning. But better, I feel, to stay well away from the boundaries, it will save wasted time, planning fees and (possibly) soured relationships with neighbours.
User avatar
By MikeG.
#1287287
DoctorWibble wrote:Building right on the boundary is unlikely to be allowed for a bunch of reasons. ...... Then there are fire hazards : the old rules about being a metre from fences (now two metres) specifically referred to combustible structures.......


Again I would caution about mixing up Planning Permission and Building Regulations. It is perfectly possible (indeed, common), to get planning permission to build something which isn't permitted by Building Regulations. Your advice here is conflating the two different things. I would also say that in tight urban settings it is extremely common to see outbuildings used as boundaries, so it can be done...........but how it is done is critically important. I agree with your implication that maintaining reasonable relationships with your neighbours is important.
User avatar
By colinc
#1287302
Hi,

I thought that I would mention my own experience building my workshop. The point being that getting planning permission is not something to be worried about and you ought not to compromise on what you want to build in order to avoid it. My experience with the planning officer was very positive, and I was left thinking that I did have their support in order to enhance my property, as long as I considered the surroundings and respected the rules. Never did I get the idea they would try to stop or frustrate me.

At the time we had downsized to a bungalow and I had lost my three car sized brick/tile garage workshop. The size of the plot made just under 30 sq. metres a practical size for a new workshop so that was the starting point. I wanted a pitched roof for internal height and to build close to the boundary (about 60 cm away to give maintenance access on all sides). The height meant I needed planning permission but the overriding thing for me was that I wanted to be upfront and get approval in case anyone started complaining later. This way the Parish Council got a look at it too and everyone got a chance to complain up-front.

I did my own planning drawings (used a free 2d cad package Draftsight) which were very simple. You can do sketches on paper though. They don't need to be complicated and can be scanned and submitted electronically. I provided elevations, a floor plan and a location plan showing where it was on the site together with a location map downloaded from Ordnance Survey.

Because of the proximity to the boundary the planning application referred to the construction as 'substantially incombustible materials', but showed the roof as Marley tiles and the cladding as Marley Cedral fibre-cement timber plank effect boards. You need to describe the external finishes, window colour etc., as they have relevance to the planners. They are not interested in the construction details though.

The application took a couple of months to process but came back approved with no questions or conditions. I then had to work out the construction details, but that was a different problem and can be another discussion!

Anyway, the point of this was to say don't compromise to avoid planning permission, work within the rules and it should be easy, just go for it......

regards

Colin
By J-G
#1287329
colinc wrote:...I did my own planning drawings (used a free 2d cad package Draftsight) which were very simple.

Just a caveat here - DraftSight have made a decision to stop their 'Free' version at the end of this year. Not only that, when you try to open the program it will 'Phone Home' and simply close if you don't have a valid (paid for) licence. If you don't have an internet connection, the program closes anyway!

This effectively means that any existing drawings will not be available unless you have another program (AutoCAD) which can read .DRG files.

Whether or not pressure from long-term existing users will make them change this policy is yet to be determined.
User avatar
By colinc
#1287330
Ok,

thanks for the update, I hadn't heard that. Draftsight is not an option if you want free software, which is a shame as it has been useful to many people. There are alternatives, but for the purpose described a pencil and paper works well enough :D

I work for Trimble so should probably be pushing Sketchup anyway.

regards

Colin